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Forum LockedHellene and Greece ,levelling the words

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Homer MakeDonski View Drop Down
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    Posted: 12-Aug-2008 at 00:33
As second part of previous topic..
http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=3614

Hellene

H->X different orthography for the same sound
x -> k`s
The Latin consonants, except as noticed below, were pronounced more or less as they generally are in English.
Notice for letter x :

x was pronounced ks, as in English extra (not gz as in examine, nor kz as in exonerate).

*Xellene
K`S ellene
i->e ->je
''` sellenje
“`Selenje

Explanation for the word selenje as it given at Macedonian-English dictionary is:
selenje n. removal, resettling ,migration

Ref: Dušan Crvenkovski,Branislav Gruić “Dictionary English-Macedonian,Macedonian-English“, Naša Kniga,Skopje,1993...p.918

-S. A. Handford and Mary Herberg “Latin-English ,English -Latin dictionary” Berlin and Munich ,Germany, 1955,1966 … p.8-9
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Homer MakeDonski View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Homer MakeDonski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2008 at 00:34
Selenje or Migration -explanation of:

Migrātiō, ōnis f removal, migration; change of meaning.
Migrō 1 a) to remove, depart, emigrate (ab, ex, de re in or ad alqd);
b) trans. to transport; to transgress.

Ref: S.A. Handford and Mary Herberg “Latin-English, English -Latin dictionary” Germany 1955, 1966.Berlin and Munich … p.200

migrant n 1. a person or animal that moves from one region, place or country to another .
2. an itinerant agricultural worker. ~ adj.
3. moving from one region, place or country to another; migratory.
migrate vb.(intr.) 1. to go from one place to settle in another, esp. in a foreign country.
2.(of birds, fishes, etc.) to journey between different habitats at specific times of the year.[C17: < L migrare to change one’s adobe] –mi’grator n.
migration n. 1.the act or an instance of migrating. 2. a group of people, birds, etc. migrating in a body.
3. Chem. a movement of atoms, ions, or molecules, such as motions of ions in solution under the influence of electric fields. –mi’grational adj.
migratory adj.1. of or characterized by migration. 2. nomadic; itinerant

Ref. “The new Collins concise dictionary of the English language”. London & Glasgow 1987…p.714-715
Standard ISBN 0 00 433091-9
Indexed ISBN 0 00 433070-6
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Homer MakeDonski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2008 at 00:34
Mi^gratio=Grætio=Greece

Text below have its part to give some examples of letter m changes into ancient dialects of the Hellenes ,and some changes parallel between them and Latin langue,


Changes of μ, esp. in dialects:
III
2. Aeol., as αμμες υμμες єμμα єμμι for ημєις υμεις єιμα the vowel or diphtong before it being shortened, Greg. Cor.p. 597 ; - αμμες and υμμες also in Hom.and Ep.

III. μ is freq. added or left out, acc. to dialects,
1. at the beginning of a word as αρυω μηρυω, ια μια ,ονθυλєυω μονθολєυω, οσχος μοσχος , οχλєυς μοχλєυς , υραξ μυραξ ,μαλη Lat. ala Buttm.Lexil. v.ουλαι 4. Lob. Phryn. 356; so ΄΄Αρης , Lat.Mars, ανηρ, Engl. man.



Henry George Liddell and Robert Scott “Greek-English Lexicon” ,London,1896… p.953
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Homer MakeDonski View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Homer MakeDonski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2008 at 00:35
Grætia=Græcia

The Latin consonants… except as noticed below, were pronounced more or less as they generally are in English.
Notes for letter t :
t (ratio) always had its proper sound; ra-ti-ō was pronounced as it is written ( not with the sound of sh as in English rational, nor with the sound of ts, although in many Italian words t has been replaced by a z which is pronounced as ts – e.g. giustizia from Latin iūstitia ).


Ref: S. A. Handford and Mary Herberg “Latin-English ,English -Latin dictionary” Berlin and Munich ,Germany, 1955,1966 … p.8-9

From here we can notice that in a lot of Italian words letter t has been replaced by a z ,which is pronounced as ts.
We could compare not only example of the word iūstitia- giustizia, but at the words Dalmatia pronounced as Dalmatsia ,Croatia, pronounced as Croatsia, in my mother tongue written as Dalmacia, pronounced the same as well.
This letter deviation reality could be taken as example to analysed letter t deviation at the word gratio.
GraTio
t->ts-c
*Gratio->*Grætio->*Gratsio->*Grætsio –>*Græcio-Greece
Gratio pronounced as Gracio and this days spelt as Greece with the meaning same as Hellene

Hellene and Greece two different words meaning one and the same
at two different languages .
Hellene= Selenje in Macedonian
Greece = Migration in Latin

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Homer MakeDonski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2008 at 00:44
or Helens =Greeks=newcomers=imigrants
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2008 at 21:58

Ok but in which language "S" was changed to "H", Selen -> Helen?

Sindh -> Hind (India), Asura -> Ahura, Soma -> Haoma, ...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2008 at 13:23
Complete nonsence once again...

1) The word is Έλληνας (Ellinas transcribed instead of translitterated). There's no H pronounciation at all. It is pronounced as following:

El like E in El Paso
Li like in litterature
Nas like in Nascar

2) Graeki is the name of 1 tribe that came in early contact with Latins, who in their turn called all Greek speaking people for that. The name derives from Graea which means grey or old.

Good luck next time Gomer...




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2008 at 13:27
And to be more official with some credible source, read this:

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Greek

Greek Look%20up%20Greek%20at%20Dictionary.com
O.E. Crecas (pl.), early Gmc. borrowing from L. Græci "the Hellenes," from Gk. Grakoi. Aristotle, who was the first to use Graikhos as equivalent to Hellenes ("Meteorologica" I.xiv) wrote that it was the name originally used by Illyrians for the Dorians in Epirus, from Graii, native name of the people of Epirus. But a modern theory (put forth by Ger. classical historian Georg Busolt, 1850-1920), derives it from Graikhos "inhabitant of Graia" (lit. "gray"), a town on the coast of Boeotia, which was the name given by the Romans to all Greeks, originally to the Gk. colonists from Graia who helped found Cumae (9c. B.C.E.), the important city in southern Italy where the Latins first encountered Greeks. It was reborrowed in this general sense by the Greeks. Meaning "unintelligible speech, gibberish" is from 1600. Meaning "Greek letter fraternity member" is student slang, 1900.
"It was subtle of God to learn Greek when he wished to become an author -- and not to learn it better." [Nietzsche, "Beyond Good and Evil," 1886]
The Turkish name for the country is Yunanistan, lit. "Land of the Ionians," hence Arabic, Hindi Yunan. Greek gift is from "Æneid," II.49: "timeo Danaos et dona ferentes." The Gmc. languages originally borrowed the word with an initial -k- sound (cf. O.H.G. Chrech, Goth. Kreks), which was probably their initial sound closest to the Latin -g- at the time; the word was later refashioned.



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