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Seko ![]() Administrator ![]() ![]() Superfluous Enabler of Sekostan Joined: 01-Sep-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8681 |
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lgb, your post above deserves to be posted in the 'Bulgarian origins' thread. It fits more appropriately with your glorified revisionist line of thinking and imagination. Try to give this thread a chance at some form of mature debate.
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Copyright © 2004 Seko
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Akolouthos ![]() Immortal Guard ![]() ![]() Joined: 24-Feb-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2096 |
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Ah Theophylact; I'm rather fond of his late eminence. After all, he did sum up Byzantine Scriptural commentary in his Explanation. I haven't read any of his historical works.
-Akolouthos
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londoner_gb ![]() Housecarl ![]() ![]() Joined: 04-Oct-2007 Status: Offline Points: 196 |
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I think its natural while talking about a people and their history to take under consideration what their memories are about it...I cannot see any reason to call the common folk in medieval Bulgaria "revisionists" and "immature"! Vox populi vox dei someone once said!
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londoner_gb ![]() Housecarl ![]() ![]() Joined: 04-Oct-2007 Status: Offline Points: 196 |
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Other ethnicities in the Balkans lack this kind of recorded popular memory,yet they are rather acknowleged as autochtonous...while to a people with distinctive autochtonous memories and traditions this right is rather disputed |
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londoner_gb ![]() Housecarl ![]() ![]() Joined: 04-Oct-2007 Status: Offline Points: 196 |
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Interesting are the compromises the East Roman empire made in orther to appease or show respect and grattitude to its northern neighbour:
"...On this festal occasion the emperor commanded me-I was very ill at the time-and also the Bulgarian envoys who had arrived the day before, to meet him at the church of the holy apostles. And when after the garrulous songs of praise (to Nicephorus) and the celebration of the mass we were invited to table, he placed above me on our side of the table, which was long and narrow, the envoy of the Bulgarians who was shorn in Hungarian fashion, girt with a brazen chain, and as it seemed to me, a catechumen; plainly in scorn of yourselves my august masters. On your behalf I was despised, rejected and scorned. But I thank the Lord Jesus Christ whom you serve with your whole soul that I have been considered worthy to suffer contumely for your sakes. However, my masters, not considering myself but yourselves to be insulted, I left the table. And as I was about indignantly to go away, Leo the marshal of the court and brother of the emperor, and Simeon the chief state secretary came up to me from behind, barking out at me this: "When Peter the king of the Bulgarians married the daughter of Christophorus articles were mutually drawn up and confirmed with an oath to the effect that with us the envoys of the Bulgarians should be preferred, honored and cherished above the envoys of all other nations. That envoy of the Bulgarians although, as you say and as is true, he is shorn, unwashed and girt with a brazen chain, is nevertheless a patrician; and we decree and judge that it would not be right to give a bishop, especially a Frankish one, the, preference over him. And since we know that you do consider this unseemly, we will not now, as you do expect, allow you to return to your quarters, but shall oblige you to take food in a separate apartment with the servants of the emperor. On account of the incomparable grief in my heart I made no reply to them, but did what they had ordered; judging that table not a suitable place where-I will not say to me, that is, the bishop Liutprand, but to your envoy-an envoy of the Bulgarians is preferred."
Edited by londoner_gb - 22-Oct-2007 at 21:03 |
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Ioan-Assen II ![]() Knight ![]() ![]() Joined: 18-Oct-2007 Location: Bulgaria Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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No no no! I do not support the view that Thracians lived in 2 countries! They probably lived on many more (Romania, Bulgaria, Byzantium etc).
I dont see continuation in todays bg, because we just had different culture and state. We are mainly the Thracians (genetically), but we are different since Boris I from all of us surrounding us. We became Bulgarians, we have our language, our culture. The main component was the THracians, but not only them. Slavs and the their languahge are crushal for our formation. The state of the Bulgars also. We are different than the other nations. We are different that Byzantium. I just cant get how can we be heirs of Byzantium if we had such a glorious state with unique culture?
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londoner_gb ![]() Housecarl ![]() ![]() Joined: 04-Oct-2007 Status: Offline Points: 196 |
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Romania was just an insignificant Bulgarian province...
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londoner_gb ![]() Housecarl ![]() ![]() Joined: 04-Oct-2007 Status: Offline Points: 196 |
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It was exactly with Boris that the process started to turn Bulgaria into an exact replica of Byzantium...Of course not Greek but Bulgarian speaking I agree on that... Edited by londoner_gb - 22-Oct-2007 at 21:14 |
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Anton ![]() Caliph ![]() Joined: 23-Jun-2006 Location: Bulgaria Status: Offline Points: 2888 |
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I think it was written by Demetrius Chomatian not Theophylact. You confuse short and long versions of Climent of Okhrid's biography.
Edited by Anton - 22-Oct-2007 at 21:36 |
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pinguin ![]() Editorial Staff ![]() ![]() Joined: 29-Sep-2006 Location: Chile Status: Offline Points: 7508 |
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Well, Spain never has claimed to descend of Bizantines but of Romans
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Akolouthos ![]() Immortal Guard ![]() ![]() Joined: 24-Feb-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2096 |
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Which has nothing to do with the connection I was noting. I sought to establish the shaky technical connection between the Byzantine Emperors and the Spanish monarchs. The perception the Spaniards have of themselves, their cultural traditions, etc. are completely unrelated to the point at issue. For the record, however, the Roman emperors did reconquer parts of Visigothic southern Spain during the Byzantine period.
-Akolouthos
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Seko ![]() Administrator ![]() ![]() Superfluous Enabler of Sekostan Joined: 01-Sep-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8681 |
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Here is what I found Ako:
Andreas Palaeologus stayed in Italy under the protection of the Papal States.
Looking for money and a better life, Andreas tried to sell the rights to the Byzantine crown, which had fallen to him de jure since the death of his father Thomas. Charles VIII of France originally agreed to purchase the rights of succession from Andreas in 1494. However Charles predeceased him on April 7, 1498. Andreas' younger brother Manuel Palaiologos arranged a deal with the Ottoman Sultan Bayazid II, exchanging his rights to the Byzantine throne for a comfortable pension. Andreas died a pauper in 1503. According to his will his heirs were Ferdinand II of Aragon and Isabella of Castile. While most scholars believe Andreas left no descendants of his own, Donald M. Nicol's The Immortal Emperor recognises a Constantine Palaiologos who served in the Papal Guard and a Maria who married Russian noble Mihail Vasilivich as possible offspring of Andreas.
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Copyright © 2004 Seko
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Akolouthos ![]() Immortal Guard ![]() ![]() Joined: 24-Feb-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2096 |
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Thanks Seko. I thought I had read something to that effect.
![]() -Akolouthos
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londoner_gb ![]() Housecarl ![]() ![]() Joined: 04-Oct-2007 Status: Offline Points: 196 |
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Not to forget mentioning that even "Jagfar Tarihi"-the epos of the Volga-Bulgars also shows the Cimmerians/Scythians as the ancestors of the Bulgars, it also says that they lost their native tongue when they were overrun by the Khazars and adopted the language of the latter...
So complete unanimity in the old Bulgarian sources on the matter!
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londoner_gb ![]() Housecarl ![]() ![]() Joined: 04-Oct-2007 Status: Offline Points: 196 |
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And by this I dont mean the Macedonians from Fyrom only!
![]() We shall soon see the end of their insignificant rebellion!
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Athanasios ![]() Immortal Guard ![]() ![]() Joined: 23-Jan-2007 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 547 |
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You have 4 more choices, watch your step...
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Seko ![]() Administrator ![]() ![]() Superfluous Enabler of Sekostan Joined: 01-Sep-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8681 |
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Again, this belongs in that other thread. I assume you know how to stick to the topic.
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Copyright © 2004 Seko
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londoner_gb ![]() Housecarl ![]() ![]() Joined: 04-Oct-2007 Status: Offline Points: 196 |
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Seko the first step in proving our legitimate claim on Byzantium is by stressing on the fact that we are the oldest population in the Balkans and Asia Minor!
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Athanasios ![]() Immortal Guard ![]() ![]() Joined: 23-Jan-2007 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 547 |
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es_bih ![]() Immortal Guard ![]() ![]() Beglerbeg Joined: 20-Dec-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3426 |
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I agree there are a great many "heirs" to one degree or another of Eastern Roman / Byzantine society. Territorially, culturally, architectural style wise, etc... political ideologies...
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