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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2006 at 05:33
Originally posted by BigL BigL wrote:

IKKI YOU PROMISED ME A PARTHIA ROME BATTLE DESCRIPTion on other thread Question


ups, i forget it!Confused Sorry sorry, i will send you a private email in few time
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote batu khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2006 at 06:17
china's army sucked very often(except today,it doesnt suck but still we can call it  a "horde" )...a Turkish or Mongol tribe could easily beat any chinese army.The tribes were so succesful that Chinese even imiated their costumes,armours and tactics.1 Gokturk Warrior against 20 chinese soldiers.chinese army was so bad thet they had to build the great wall.anyway even it didnt stop Turks so they kept sacking Chinese cities.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote perikles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2006 at 10:03

Japan was also beeting Chinese army very easily

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aster Thrax Eupator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Aug-2006 at 04:00
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The so-called "Assyrian Empire" actually illustrates the futility of empire building without the proper empire building tools . . . i.e. a device for "worldwide" mind control.  Despite its suplative weaponry compared to all its contemporarily and dedication to maintaining that military edge, "Assyrian Empire" was little more than the size of today's Iraq and Syria even at its peak.  Assyrian army may have ventured far and wide, their hold on Egypt and Babylon (southern Iraq) was very transient . . . not even close to what the Persians accomplished only a few hundred years later.   Assyrians had the dreams and got close (trying to impose their city god on all neighboring tribes), but never quite achieved literacy or the universal god that Persians brought with them to the empire building game.  
 
Yes, but their management of their conquered peoples was very advanced. I supposed that they just did not mind that much about developing their empire territorially; their soldiers were paid by plunder which shows a disregard for want of development
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PeterKhanZendran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2006 at 15:15
My top 10 empires
1.  The Mongol empire of Genghis Khan and Ogodei Khan.
2.  The Habsburg empire.
3.  Hakhamanish Iran.
4.  Russian empire.
5.  Sassanian Iran.
6.  The Empire of Timur-I-Lenk
7.  Roman empire
8.  Han China
9.  British empire
10. Mogul India
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Exarchus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2006 at 15:57
Well, when people say... why did the British or French empires left.

It's like in that Monty Python movie when the Jews ask: What have the Romans ever done for us?

The French and British empire probably saw the greatest cultural advances under their times after the Roman Empire.

The French empire left the civil code and the metric system for example, when the British spread the English language and the common law etc...

In that record, they were certainly more influencial than the Spanish or Ottoman Empire.

I rank those 3 first in term of influence.


Edited by Exarchus - 22-Aug-2006 at 15:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Heraclius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2006 at 06:13
Exarchus "The French empire left the civil code and the metric system"
 
 The civil code, fair enough great contribution, the metric system? spawn of satan!!! LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2006 at 06:24
Why not consider the Hindu empire in India also ? It has been thee since antiquity, was the most advanced in terms of scientific & literary sciences. Conquerers seem to get tired of conquering it, but it is still there. Same as it was thousands of years ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote perikles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2006 at 09:08

Ok. Lets see i wouldd like to see some proofs of the sayings. For example "i like the The Mongol empire of Genghis Khan and Ogodei Khan". OK. I respect that. Could you please tell me what tings you like in that "empire". Or Ottoman. OK . Good. What have this empire and you like it and considers that great.

Romans have offered a lot of thinks to the world. Lets say their law system.
Greeks ,although they weren't empire by themselves (Byzantio, Macedonian) and of course Athens allience and Spartan allience may considered as empires, have offer a lot of things to civil. Britain is a gret empire. But India? what? the life after death? Great. China? that they use gun pownder for fireworks? I don't say that they are not gret empires but they worth less than greeks, romans, british even spain.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Exarchus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Aug-2006 at 19:22
Yeah, the Greeks brought a lot to the world, but it wasn't done through any empires (including the Empire of Alexander or the Byzantine Empire).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red4tribe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Aug-2006 at 20:13
Here are my top 10
 
1.Byzantine-They were not the largest but lasted much longer than almost anyone else.
2.British Empire-The largest empire of all time
3.Roman Empire-Quite large and was techinally advanced well beyoed it's time
4.Mongol Empire-Streched from the asian pacific coast to present day Poland
5.Spanish Empire-Lands from the Pacific to Soutch America through the Caribiean and up into present day Canada
6.Ottoman Empire-Conquered land from the Persian Gulf to Austria.
7.French Empire-Land from Canada to Africa
8.Chinese Empire-large and very rich and advaced beyond it's time.
9.Alexander the Great's empire-Ruled most of the european known world and conquered it in such a short perioed of time.
10.Dutch Empire-Not one the the greatest for it's size but for it's wealth,one of the richest empires.
Had this day been wanting, the world had never seen the last stage of perfection to which human nature is capable of attaining.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Aug-2006 at 01:57
Originally posted by batu khan batu khan wrote:

china's army sucked very often(except today,it doesnt suck but still we can call it  a "horde" )...a Turkish or Mongol tribe could easily beat any chinese army.The tribes were so succesful that Chinese even imiated their costumes,armours and tactics.1 Gokturk Warrior against 20 chinese soldiers.chinese army was so bad thet they had to build the great wall.anyway even it didnt stop Turks so they kept sacking Chinese cities.
 
I wont let you insult the Mongol army like this! Dare take honour away from Mongols acheivements
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Aug-2006 at 02:00
Originally posted by perikles perikles wrote:

Japan was also beeting Chinese army very easily

 

 
Japan Lost the Imjin War to Ming china even though mings army had detoraited so badly.Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote perikles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Aug-2006 at 11:20
japanese army whenever he wanted envaded china make a slaughter conquer a city and then return to Japan. Ok they some fights. You think you can compare chinas' amy with JapanLOL?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Aug-2006 at 20:07
Are you Serious QuestionChinese Peasants defeated the Japanese Samurai pirates .
And the Ming army of 100,000 which was so corrupt defeated the 200,000 samurai.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dream208 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Aug-2006 at 21:40
Usually I won't respond to post without historical bases, but this Greek friends has gone alittle far.
 
Do you know when was the first war between China and Japan?
Do you know how many military conflicts between these two countries?
Do you know the average length of Chinese dynasties, and their military histories?
 
If you don't, then I suggest you learn more before you make comments on something that you are totally ignorant of.
 
Ancient Greek prized logic and ratinality, but I see little such heritage in your words.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Aug-2006 at 00:45
Dont worry he has the sterotypical view that the chinese armies were human waves of peasants.Censored
 
When actually  Strong chinese armies, (not the ones in decline)
are more disicplined and trained than even romans.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kids Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Aug-2006 at 01:10
perikles, you are same as any Eurocentric person or perhaps racist.
 
In your view, Greek language is oldest (which mentioned in my post the longest continued civilization) and its empire is greatest since it contributed to the world more than anybody else.
 
REMEMBER, Greek borrowed heavely from its ASIAN neighbors; without Phoenican's alphabets, Egyptian art and mathematics, and culture from Near East, Greeks would not achieve its glory. In fact, most of early philosphers and writers (such as Herodotus) were from Asia Minor which was heavely influenced by Persians and other Near Eastern civilizations.
 
Also, China was one of most technological advanced civilization in ancient time. During 1 AD, only Roman empire was comparable to Han China's achievement.
 
If Greeks were so good at fighting, why Sparta needed (and willing accept) the golds from Persian king to finance its navy during the Peloponnesian War?
 
If Greeks were strong in terms of military, why it never achieved in building empire? Afterall, the so-called "semi-barbarians" Macedonians conquered Greece and then Romans conquered Greece later on. Later, Turkish/Ottoman ruled Greece too. If it wasnt the Western powers' interests in Balkan area, it was near impossible for Greece to achieve its independence from Ottomans.
 
China? All foreign rulers and invaders, in the end, became Chinese and adopted Chines imperial system. Greeks? Did they still believe in Greek philosophy and practice ancient Greek religions after the introduction of Christian religion? In China, after almost 4000 years, same writing system, and same ancestoral worshipping still common among all Chinese.  

 



Edited by Kids - 26-Aug-2006 at 01:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Aug-2006 at 09:38

First of all Herodotus being born in Asia Minor doesnt make him Persian and as much for Greeks being influenced by Egyptians,Persians(u name it),they were also influenced by Greeks as much and even more.

You talk about Sparta needed the golds of Persia to finance their navy,which has nothing to do with their fighting capabillities.And by the way they didnt ask for it,it was offered to them.
 
Macedonians were Greek not "semi-barbarians",one man called them barbarians cause of personal ego and pride of Athens to have a ruler and still ppl use that as propaganda.
 
Macedonian phalanx was one of the most advanced millitary units at the time and the reason the Roman phalanx was invented was to beat the Macedonian in the battlefield.
 
Romans had already adopted the Greek culture before they conquered them.
 
And as for your claim of interests in Balkan area,its vice-versa.What if USA and EU didnt have interests in middle east,do you think they would still care for Turkey?from what i see they hardly do now.
 
Like it or not China was and still(partly) is isolated from the rest of the world.also depends how you define a great empire?by its strength?by its culture?or by the influence that has to the rest of the world?
 
I dont think that in any of these terms China was ever the greatest empire.
 
i choose the Ottoman by its strength,Greek by its culture and British by the influence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kids Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Aug-2006 at 16:30

"First of all Herodotus being born in Asia Minor doesnt make him Persian and as much for Greeks being influenced by Egyptians,Persians(u name it),they were also influenced by Greeks as much and even more"

Please read my sentence more carefully; I didnt say Herodotus was 100% Persians or Asians. I simply pointed out the important fact that many early important Greek cultural figures were born not on mainland but in Asia Minor which was heavely influenced by Near Eastern cutlures.

It would requires an 10 pages essay to show you how much the East had gave the West, specifically ancient Greece

One of the authors of Forgotten Empire: The World of Ancient Perisa (published by University of California), Alexandra Villing stated that

"Greeks and Persians encountered each other in many different ways throughout the 220 years of the Achaemenid Empire...Greeks always remained on the fringes of the Persian horizon and may have had little impact on Persian cutlure, yet for the Greeks their war with Persia seems to have been vital in accelerating their culture's unparalleled flourishing in the fifth century B.C." (p.242)

Regarding of Persian influence on mainland Greek politics, Alexandra also states that "Financial support by the Persians, for example, was crucial in deciding the Peloponnesian War in favour of Sparta at the end of the fifth century BC, and throughout the fourth century BC the Persian king continued to serve as the guarantor of settlements between the cities of Greece. The Persian Empire also remained a haven for refugees from Greece and for those looking for a fortune oversea" (p.241).

Today, most of Classical sholars, including my Greek professor, agreed that Herodotus and other post Perisan war writers held bias and Orientalist view toward non-Greek people. As a result, people like Persians were depicted as inferior, womanish, and corrupted race, which was not true from accounts about Persians from other cultures (such as Jews, and Egyptians).  
 
It might be more political than historical if you want to label whether Macedonians were "full blood" Greeks or "barbarians". As far as I know, most of renowned scholars of Britain and N. American believed Macedoniasn shared only same religious practices with Southern Greek neighbors.
 
The world renowed classical scholar Dr. Paul Cartledge is a Chairman of the Faculty of Classics of University of Cambridge and a Fellow of Clare College (part of University of Cambridge too). In his book The Greeks: A Portrait of Self & Others, he maintained that "Alexander the Great, was a Macedonian and only technically a Greek, in the sense that the king of Macedon alone of his people was permitted to complete in the pan-Hellenic Olympic Games (Herodotus 5.22). To some Greeks, indeed, all Macedonians were virtually or utterly barbarians, even though they probably spoke a Greek-based dialect" (Cartledge 58).
 
"What if USA and EU didnt have interests in middle east,do you think they would still care for Turkey?"
 
I never have envisioned that I would be draged into the troublesome dissussion of world politics. Anyway, my reason to state about Western intersts in Balkan area was to refute perikles' almost racist view toward all other non-Greek civilizations and that Greeks were superior in many other areas.
 
"Like it or not China was and still(partly) is isolated from the rest of the world.also depends how you define a great empire?by its strength?by its culture?or by the influence that has to the rest of the world?"
 
"I dont think that in any of these terms China was ever the greatest empire."
 
 
Like it or not? What do you mean? It sounds that you have preference of hating China even though you had no academic resources to back up your claim. Do you know about Silk Road? Do you know about the trade between the Arab world and Chinese? Do you know about the Imperial ambitions of Han Dynasty in Central Asia and beyond?
 
The sophistication of Classical China has been compared with ancient Greece since 1970s.
 
In fact, there has been numerous books that compared the Classical Age of China and Greece since China's experience was most comparable to Greece
 
The Cambridge University published the renowed scholar of Hellenic studies, Dr. G. E. R. Lioyd "The Ambitions of Curiosity: Understanding the World in Ancient Greece and China" in year 2002
 
Yale University also published "The Way and the World: Science and Medicien in Early China and Greece" by another renowned Classic scholars Geoggrey Lloyd and Nathan Sivin in year 2002
 
The above books can be found in most of major libraries of North American university (UBC, Univeristy of Torono, University of Alberta, Yale, Harvard, Oxford, MIT....). There are actually more academic books from Oxford in comparsion of Chinese science and Greek approach to the natural world, but the list is too long.
 
If you want to continue the debate that China was inferior to Greece or any other empire, then shown some academic resources like I do above.
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