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Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2009 at 12:07
Styrbiorn, if the Chinese wear the jeans, it will certainly show the influence of American culture in China, this influence will be stronger if you find other things such as American foods (like McDonald's), movies (like Hollywood), ... in China too, what if you find a people in China who exactly look like Americans (unlike yellow-skinned Chinese) and call themselves American too? This question can be also asked about America and red-skinned native Americans, and why not Norway, Sweden and other Scandinavian countries?
 
 
The Arctic: Native people
 
Arctic nations include: Canada, Greenland (a territory of Denmark), Russia, United States (Alaska), Iceland, Norway, Sweden, and Finland.


Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 22-May-2009 at 12:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slayertplsko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2009 at 12:24

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Cyrus Shahmiri wrote:

Styrbiorn, if the Chinese wear the jeans, it will certainly show the influence of American culture in China, this influence will be stronger if you find other things like American foods (like McDonald's), movies (like Hollywood), ... in China too, what if you find a people in China who exactly look like Americans (unlike yellow-skinned Chinese) and call themselves Americans too? This question can be asked about America and red skinned native Americans too.

We Slovaks wear jeans, eat in McDonnalds, do shopping in Tesco, Carrefour, drink Coke and so on, watch American movies, listen to American rap, pop, rock, r&b or anything that comes to your mind. However, we are still Slovaks, speaking Slovak, living in Slovakia, keeping Slovak traditions and our music, even though genres like rock or pop or even rap are populat over here, is strongly marked by Central Slovak musical roots as well as other musical traditions like Hungarian and Gypsy. Moreover, THERE IS NO MASS MIGRATION FROM AMERICA!! Americans aren't our ancestors because of the aforesaid (moreover, not everything mentioned was American). Please, get it finally and stop ridiculing yourself.



Edited by Slayertplsko - 22-May-2009 at 12:25
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2009 at 12:50
Originally posted by Slayertplsko Slayertplsko wrote:

We Slovaks wear jeans, eat in McDonnalds, do shopping in Tesco, Carrefour, drink Coke and so on, watch American movies, listen to American rap, pop, rock, r&b or anything that comes to your mind. However, we are still Slovaks, speaking Slovak, living in Slovakia, keeping Slovak traditions and our music, even though genres like rock or pop or even rap are populat over here, is strongly marked by Central Slovak musical roots as well as other musical traditions like Hungarian and Gypsy. Moreover, THERE IS NO MASS MIGRATION FROM AMERICA!! Americans aren't our ancestors because of the aforesaid (moreover, not everything mentioned was American). Please, get it finally and stop ridiculing yourself.
 
There is no need to be any mass migration from America to see the influence of American culture in Slovakia, just 300 years ago in Zanjan province of Iran, people just spoke Persian and all things were almost exatcly similar to other Persians, but without any mass migration, Azeri Turkish influence increased gradually in this region, so that now Zanjanis proudly call themselves Turks and speak Azeri Turkish.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote King John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2009 at 19:12
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Cyrus Shahmiri wrote:

Originally posted by Slayertplsko Slayertplsko wrote:

We Slovaks wear jeans, eat in McDonnalds, do shopping in Tesco, Carrefour, drink Coke and so on, watch American movies, listen to American rap, pop, rock, r&b or anything that comes to your mind. However, we are still Slovaks, speaking Slovak, living in Slovakia, keeping Slovak traditions and our music, even though genres like rock or pop or even rap are populat over here, is strongly marked by Central Slovak musical roots as well as other musical traditions like Hungarian and Gypsy. Moreover, THERE IS NO MASS MIGRATION FROM AMERICA!! Americans aren't our ancestors because of the aforesaid (moreover, not everything mentioned was American). Please, get it finally and stop ridiculing yourself.
 
There is no need to be any mass migration from America to see the influence of American culture in Slovakia, just 300 years ago in Zanjan province of Iran, people just spoke Persian and all things were almost exatcly similar to other Persians, but without any mass migration, Azeri Turkish influence increased gradually in this region, so that now Zanjanis proudly call themselves Turks and speak Azeri Turkish.
But, your theory as I understand it is based on the fact that a mass migration occurred from Iranian lands to scandinavia.  So how does this help you?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2009 at 19:43
Quote But, your theory as I understand it is based on the fact that a mass migration occurred from Iranian lands to scandinavia.  So how does this help you?
I believe that there were also some migrations, however it was not a necessity of Gutian influence in Gotland, in fact I think in the ancient times, the cultural influence could occur mostly through migrations, one of the reasons is that there were no modern communication medias like TV, radio, newspapers, internet or etc, am I wrong?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slayertplsko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2009 at 20:37
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Cyrus Shahmiri wrote:

Quote But, your theory as I understand it is based on the fact that a mass migration occurred from Iranian lands to scandinavia.  So how does this help you?
I believe that there were also some migrations, however it was not a necessity of Gutian influence in Gotland, in fact I think in the ancient times, the cultural influence could occur mostly through migrations, one of the reasons is that there were no modern communication medias like TV, radio, newspapers, internet or etc, am I wrong?

Now, explain us this:

I believe that there were also some migrations, however it was not a necessity of Gutian influence in Gotland, in fact I think in the ancient times, the cultural influence could occur mostly through migrations,...

So now what's correct?? Was there a migration according to your theory or not??

The Azeri influence in North-West Iran presupposes no necessary migration or occupation, because the Oghuz Turks neighboured the area. But according to my modest geographic knowledge, Luristan and Gotland are several thousands of kms apart. So you want to claim that the pre-Goths (whose origin in Gotland is disputed by the way) one day decided to become Goths, under the influence of a people that dwelled several thousands of kms far away and never migrated to the area?? Or did they migrate?? If so, what's the evidence for it?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2009 at 16:57

I have always said that there were some migrations but you compare the ancient influences with modern ones and say some influences could occur without any migration, like about the jeans, but was it possible in the ancient times?

I think after bronzes, Luristan is famous for rock carvings in the world, there are numerous rock carvings in this region and some of them are really similar to the ones in Sweden and other Scandinavian countries.
 
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Just search for Maps of Lur: http://mapsof.net/Lur/ as you see there are just three places in Iran and two places in Sweden with the exact name of Lur in the world, do you know why?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote King John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-May-2009 at 03:16
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Cyrus Shahmiri wrote:

Just search for Maps of Lur: http://mapsof.net/Lur/ as you see there are just three places in Iran and two places in Sweden with the exact name of Lur in the world, do you know why?
Because there is a finite combination of letters in the Indo-European languages.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote King John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-May-2009 at 03:20
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Cyrus Shahmiri wrote:

I have always said that there were some migrations but you compare the ancient influences with modern ones and say some influences could occur without any migration, like about the jeans, but was it possible in the ancient times?

I think after bronzes, Luristan is famous for rock carvings in the world, there are numerous rock carvings in this region and some of them are really similar to the ones in Sweden and other Scandinavian countries.
 
I bet if you compared these same cave painting to those found in the Americas, other areas of Europe, and Asia, you would find that they are very similar.  By the way what does a similarity in cave painting do to help your thesis?  When were these paintings/carvings made?  Can you prove that one is influenced by the other or that there is any connection between the two?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote King John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-May-2009 at 03:23
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Cyrus Shahmiri wrote:

Quote But, your theory as I understand it is based on the fact that a mass migration occurred from Iranian lands to scandinavia.  So how does this help you?
I believe that there were also some migrations, however it was not a necessity of Gutian influence in Gotland, in fact I think in the ancient times, the cultural influence could occur mostly through migrations, one of the reasons is that there were no modern communication medias like TV, radio, newspapers, internet or etc, am I wrong?
You're going to have to explain this comment to me because I just don't follow the logic; maybe it's because I have been traveling all day and am really tired.  You also don't answer the question I asked at the end of my post; another question you neglect to answer just like most of the others I have asked in the course of this thread.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-May-2009 at 09:18
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Cyrus Shahmiri wrote:

Quote But, your theory as I understand it is based on the fact that a mass migration occurred from Iranian lands to scandinavia.  So how does this help you?
I believe that there were also some migrations, however it was not a necessity of Gutian influence in Gotland, in fact I think in the ancient times, the cultural influence could occur mostly through migrations, one of the reasons is that there were no modern communication medias like TV, radio, newspapers, internet or etc, am I wrong?

Think about it a little and you'll see that you are wrong. Do you think bronze, iron casting was spread only through migration? That agriculture, the wheel, stirrups, compass, rudder, mathematics, etc etc mostly spread via migration? In that case the whole world is either entirely Chinese or Hittite. The only difference is the rate of the spread, which is enhanced by the modern communication.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-May-2009 at 15:56
Originally posted by King John King John wrote:

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Cyrus Shahmiri wrote:

Just search for Maps of Lur: http://mapsof.net/Lur/ as you see there are just three places in Iran and two places in Sweden with the exact name of Lur in the world, do you know why?
Because there is a finite combination of letters in the Indo-European languages.
Not all Indo-European languages, but some of them, as I said in the first page of this thread (about Middle Persian Lap "lip"), there was no "L" sound neither in Avestan nor in Old Persian language.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-May-2009 at 16:22
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Cyrus Shahmiri wrote:

Just search for Maps of Lur: http://mapsof.net/Lur/ as you see there are just three places in Iran and two places in Sweden with the exact name of Lur in the world, do you know why?

Coincidence. The Swedish Lur (which is actually originally Norwegian) comes from lúðer, and a Scandinavian 'u' is not the same as a Persian (a Persian 'u' would be 'o' in Swedish). These searches are ridiculous. There are four Mora:s in the world, one is Sweden, one in Minnesota (founded by people from the Swedish one), one in Spain, one in Cameroon. There are two Tibro, one in Sweden, one in Pakistan, Lule exists only in Sweden and neighbouring African countries, etc etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slayertplsko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-May-2009 at 16:47
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Cyrus Shahmiri wrote:

Originally posted by King John King John wrote:

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Cyrus Shahmiri wrote:

Just search for Maps of Lur: http://mapsof.net/Lur/ as you see there are just three places in Iran and two places in Sweden with the exact name of Lur in the world, do you know why?
Because there is a finite combination of letters in the Indo-European languages.
Not all Indo-European languages, but some of them, as I said in the first page of this thread (about Middle Persian Lap "lip"), there was no "L" sound neither in Avestan nor in Old Persian language.

Which IE language has an infinite combinations of letters in the alphabet?? And how is your lecture about Iranian phonology relevant here?? If the two languages lacked the sound, it can mean only two things:

1, it's of Iranian origin but a recent one, ie. New Persian

2, it's of foreign origin, perhaps Arabic or Turkic

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-May-2009 at 17:43
Originally posted by Styrbiorn Styrbiorn wrote:


Think about it a little and you'll see that you are wrong. Do you think bronze, iron casting was spread only through migration? That agriculture, the wheel, stirrups, compass, rudder, mathematics, etc etc mostly spread via migration? In that case the whole world is either entirely Chinese or Hittite. The only difference is the rate of the spread, which is enhanced by the modern communication.
However I believe there were certainly some immigrant peoples (you can call them merchants) who spread these things, but the important point is that the Swedish articles talk about "Types", not just "Inventions", it doesn't matter who invented the bronze metal, the Chinese have had their own types of bronze objects, this is an ancient Chinese type:
 
 
And this one is an ancient Egyptian type:
 
 
 
And this one, however has been found in Iran, but is certainly a Greek type:
 
 
The interesting about the last one is that it has been found in Luristan, but is it a Luristan Bronze?
 
This is a Luristan type:
 
 
As I said in the first page, Dr. T.J.Arne has comapred it with the one which has been found in Gotland:
 
 
Several other bronze objects of Luristan and Gotland have been compared by other archaeologists and as Dr. Berman said these types have originated in Luristan, it can just show there was a connection between the people of Luristan and Gotland.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-May-2009 at 18:46
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Cyrus Shahmiri wrote:

 
Several other bronze objects of Luristan and Gotland have been compared by other archaeologists and as Dr. Berman said these types have originated in Luristan, it can just show there was a connection between the people of Luristan and Gotland.

He also said they were a result of trade. And Cyrus, iron working, compass etc, were just examples, same goes for designs as well. You're reallly clutching at slippery straws now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slayertplsko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-May-2009 at 19:34

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Cyrus Shahmiri wrote:

And this one, however has been found in Iran, but is certainly a Greek type:

Well, according to you way of thinking, this one would show some connection between Greeks and Persians, right?? So Greeks migrated to Persia and were responsible for the emergence of Persian culture??

And since this is a Greek type, then it should follow that the one found in Gotland is a Luristani type.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-May-2009 at 20:12
Originally posted by Styrbiorn Styrbiorn wrote:

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Cyrus Shahmiri wrote:

Just search for Maps of Lur: http://mapsof.net/Lur/ as you see there are just three places in Iran and two places in Sweden with the exact name of Lur in the world, do you know why?

Coincidence. The Swedish Lur (which is actually originally Norwegian) comes from lúðer, and a Scandinavian 'u' is not the same as a Persian (a Persian 'u' would be 'o' in Swedish).
It doesn't matter how Persians pronounce it, Luri "u" is neither similar to English "u", nor "o", Lurs pronounce it somehow that you think they want to kiss you! Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-May-2009 at 20:18
Originally posted by Slayertplsko Slayertplsko wrote:

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Cyrus Shahmiri wrote:

And this one, however has been found in Iran, but is certainly a Greek type:

Well, according to you way of thinking, this one would show some connection between Greeks and Persians, right?? So Greeks migrated to Persia and were responsible for the emergence of Persian culture??

Is there any doubt about this fact?!
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