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Forum LockedGlobal Warming/climate change, what's your belief?

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Poll Question: Where does AE forumers stand on the issue?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Global Warming/climate change, what's your belief?
    Posted: 07-Jan-2008 at 11:37
I suppose some parts of the world cannot talk of global warming, more like a big freeze. But here in Melbourne we are getting the full effects. They did have that book and movie "On the Beach" by Neville Shute. This said the end of the world would finish in Melbourne after the rest of the world gets wiped out. Not true, we are the first, it's hot, hot , hot. day after day,week after week.   
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2008 at 20:39
Originally posted by elenos

You don't think the Government would explain? Over here they simply don't.
 
I don't actually expect the government or any other government, to explain anything regarding this issue. I do however have this naive hope that the news organisations would do a better job at actually getting their facts straight and keeping thier reports within the realms of lucidity for the common man to understand; Instead of getting carried away with flights of fancy in some hypothetical fantasy dooms-day future world! Along with the majority of scientific organisations and their reliance on computer similations, what will happen if none of this ever comes to pass or,  (And i know this may sound far fetched, but bare with me here!) or "if" it does.... actually turns out to be quite benefical for humanity? I certainly would hate to see the centuries growth of scientific discipline, undermined and discredited in less then a century, by walking out on a thin limb?  I'm not so much as worried with news organisations loss of credibility, as much as i am with the extreme hit science would take! Besides the news reporting a consensus within the scientific community, i know there are large group's of scientists with a different opinion/views to the situation that are not definitely being heard!
 
Anyways, i'm not saying that global warming is or is not occuring. But outside of the two systems of belief's, very little public knowledge has been gained at all about this issue! Except perhaps... that many more people are walking around now a days with freshly implanted pace-makers?
 
Warm regards to you,
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Post Options Post Options   Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2008 at 22:47
I was not meaning to get at you, Panther. On that day I was abrupt in my answer for I was mad as hell about all our bills going up. You would think the government would put a full page ad explaining their actions but no such luck, pay up and shuttup. I really did feel there should be a better answer to give to you but nothing came to mind and I simply wouldn't want to guess on these important issues, that would be a disservice to all.  
 
As for global warming the Australian Government does acknowledge it's happening and are taking steps on water conservation. Where I am even in the middle of the night the ground is still as hot as during the daytime, we are being totally cooked as well as being done like a dinner on our bills. I cannot say what is happening in America for I'm not living there. If I did I would hope that I could listen to the evidence of my senses and be in touch with the natural environment rather than hear men with confused and confusing messages.
 
We don't need implanted pace makers as much as we need peace makers! Peace with each other is one thing but to make peace with our world is another.  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jan-2008 at 22:13
Don't worry elenos. I didn't mean too come across and make it sound as if you did.
 
Here in my part of the US, we are in the middle of winter, with the first expected snowfall of the year to begin later in the middle of next week. I don't know how bad it is going to get or... is supposed to be?
 
 Right now, they are being very conservative with the amount that is to fall. 20% i believe, but that could be bumped up to and probably surpassing 50%! That would probably depend on the amount of moisture from the gulf in reaching the upper levels of the atmosphere by the time the artic front gets here?


Edited by Panther - 12-Jan-2008 at 22:14
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Post Options Post Options   Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jan-2008 at 22:46
When you get a huge shift in weather like is happening the new patterns throw all previous predictions out. Global warming doesn't mean the cold fronts disappear, they just rearrange in ways never seen before and we have to go back to square one for predictions.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote nova roma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jan-2008 at 02:29
The earth is getting warmer no doubt, but I also believe that there is a ton of pseudo-science coming from both sides of the issue. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jan-2008 at 06:43
Let's hope we are not adding to it!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jan-2008 at 22:48
Originally posted by elenos

When you get a huge shift in weather like is happening the new patterns throw all previous predictions out. Global warming doesn't mean the cold fronts disappear, they just rearrange in ways never seen before and we have to go back to square one for predictions.
 
The way of predicting weather is hardly old, but is still relatively new in the scheme of things! However, that is still an interesting thought! Meteorologists have been struggling for over six decades of constantly refining the way they do predictions. I guess you could say it is a never ending process?
 
Is it really back to square one, or does the formula for their preictions need much more refinement with the advent of new technologies in detecting the slightest variations of weather, whether on a local or global scale?
 
Until then, let's hope mother-nature starts being much more generous about dropping more phenomenal clues and keep on taking care of yourselves my antipodial friend(s)!
 
Regards,
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Post Options Post Options   Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jan-2008 at 01:37
When they began predicating weather in a a modern way, they didn't have satellites, computers, mobile phones and all the bells and whistles we take for granted now. We can generate "What if?"models. Yet, if the weather is changing as alleged, then the changes can and will shift beyond sensible limits of prediction. We can only base what we know on previous patterns otherwise we would be in the field of speculation. 
 
We can detect variations, even going back thousands of years, the trick is knowing what they mean in the scheme of things enitire and that's the hard part.  Getting people who understand what it's all about is like asking for recent graduates with a million years experience. You are right, Panther - the flow of events is never ending and every throw of the dice weatherwise is a new throw that brings unexpected results.   
 
IMHO mother-nature is generous but her children are mean and greedy in their attitudes, for all they get given they want more and push what was once a fabulous store of wealth being held in reserve to the limit. By the way cheers to my American friends, live long and prosper!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2009 at 01:28
Does global warming exist? There a numerous Scientist who do not agree with this concept and some even believe the opposite- we are going into a global cool down.   Congress originally invited the Science Advisor, to the Queen of England, Lord Christopher Monckton to speak before the US Congress. But, apparently the Democrats blocked it because they did not want Al Gore to be Humiliated.

I find it funny because for people who generally support the so-called Fairness Doctrine (censorship Doctrine) they really do not want to hear the other side of the story; Global. But listen to this interview on Savage Nation and decide for yourself. I think mankind has really only minimal impact on global warming but listen and see an opinion from a Scientist, not a Politician.

http://michaelsavage.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=5614
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Donasin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2009 at 02:17
From what I understand Global Warming is happening yet people fail to look at it in terms of Earth's entire history.

Many geologists and astronomers predict that Earth will go through a time when because of the lack of CO2 caused by the lack of active volcanoes the Earth will revert to an eariler deep freeze which covered most of the surface.

So for the sake of humanity i can only hope Global Warming is man made and we can repeat it again in the future.


Edited by Donasin - 01-May-2009 at 02:17
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Post Options Post Options   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2009 at 02:38
Originally posted by eaglecap

Does global warming exist? There a numerous Scientist who do not agree with this concept and some even believe the opposite- we are going into a global cool down.   Congress originally invited the Science Advisor, to the Queen of England, Lord Christopher Monckton to speak before the US Congress. But, apparently the Democrats blocked it because they did not want Al Gore to be Humiliated.

I find it funny because for people who generally support the so-called Fairness Doctrine (censorship Doctrine) they really do not want to hear the other side of the story; Global. But listen to this interview on Savage Nation and decide for yourself. I think mankind has really only minimal impact on global warming but listen and see an opinion from a Scientist, not a Politician.

http://michaelsavage.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=5614



- Actually, a professor from my college (well I graduated a few months ago, but still) who wrote numerous articles on the validity of global warming, and also on the negative effect of extensive production of co2 and other greenhouse gases won a court case relatively recently. He wrote an article that right wingers used as propaganda against global warming (YES! THEY CHANGED THE WORDING, PHRASES, ETC... AND PASSED IT OFF AS A ANTI-GLOBAL WARMING PIECE). The man spent a while fighting the case and had it retracted finally. 

 

So am not so stoked about right wing groups and politicians finding these "odd" scientists to speak for their cause.

 

Thirdly, I would not even dignify that group with a word meaning substantial. Numerous? How about this: a few scientists, because that is what it is in actuality. Virtually, the vast majority of the scientific academia is in agreement for the most part about global warming and negative effects. 


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2009 at 02:58
I think that when it comes to the Earth climate it is such an incredibly complicated thing that we need to be careful about what we assume. Things aren't necessarily going to turn out the way we can predict.

There is, I think, substantial evidence that the gasses we are releasing into the atmosphere are changing its make up, and therefore it is logical to assume they are doing something. That however is not my main objection to smoke stacks. My biggest objection is that its wasteful and untidy. The system is imperfect and we can improve it.

We have to bear in mind that what we are doing to the Earth is still pretty minor, for example, if Yellowstone explodes whatever we are putting out is pretty much irrelevant. The climate changes all the time, while we might be a factor now, if God wished he could make us all look like amatures.

What the effects of these gasses are is hard to determine. For example a recent study showed that the Antarctic ice shelf has actually increased recently - the hole in the Ozone layer altered the air currents bring more hot air to Antarctica south of Argentina, and more cold air to south of Australia. (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25349683-601,00.html)
So I don't necessarily buy into what the effects are, and I don't buy into the doom and gloom.

Even in worse case predictions, there is an upside. I mean, we'll get an inland sea. That could means an potential doubling or tripling of arable land in Aus.


Edited by Omar al Hashim - 01-May-2009 at 03:33
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Post Options Post Options   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2009 at 18:11
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim


I think that when it comes to the Earth climate it is such an incredibly complicated thing that we need to be careful about what we assume. Things aren't necessarily going to turn out the way we can predict.There is, I think, substantial evidence that the gasses we are releasing into the atmosphere are changing its make up, and therefore it is logical to assume they are doing something. That however is not my main objection to smoke stacks. My biggest objection is that its wasteful and untidy. The system is imperfect and we can improve it.We have to bear in mind that what we are doing to the Earth is still pretty minor, for example, if Yellowstone explodes whatever we are putting out is pretty much irrelevant. The climate changes all the time, while we might be a factor now, if God wished he could make us all look like amatures.What the effects of these gasses are is hard to determine. For example a recent study showed that the Antarctic ice shelf has actually increased recently - the hole in the Ozone layer altered the air currents bring more hot air to Antarctica south of Argentina, and more cold air to south of Australia. (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25349683-601,00.html)So I don't necessarily buy into what the effects are, and I don't buy into the doom and gloom.Even in worse case predictions, there is an upside. I mean, we'll get an inland sea. That could means an potential doubling or tripling of arable land in Aus.



I tend to agree with you Omar and "yes" is it very complicated. I am not a scientist and really I have only taken a meteorology class in community college. Some scientists, I have heard, talk about a relationship with increased solar flares and global warming. I know the volcanoes give off much more gases than man. I think man has some impact but it is exaggerated for political reasons. I really wish it was global warming because an ice age would be far worse. Coast to coast am has had numerous Scientists and some doomsayers talk about this and I wonder if this issue goes beyond politics- liberal/ conservative. Whether it is caused by a cycle of climate change or man ,either case, we are in trouble. Now, if Yellowstone erupts then the whole world is in trouble period. I have traveled through Yellowstone National Park and besides being incredibly beautiful that caldera is gigantic. I have seem numerous calderas around the world including Thera. I have not heard any news about YSN it lately.




Es-bih - who is this Professor and what is his work? What was his methodology? Of course it is easy to assassinate the message by saying it is presented by those evil right wing extremist. This goes beyond politics! I ask you why was Congress so afraid to have this man speak? Oh, he might humiliate Al Gore! I wonder if you even listened to the program or blew it off as right-wing propaganda.


Oh my the sea is rsing and soon LA will be an underwater city!! Run for the hills!!!


Rise of sea levels is 'the greatest lie ever told'


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/5067351/Rise-of-sea-levels-is-the-greatest-lie-ever-told.html


NASA data shows ocean's cooling
http://www.examiner.com/x-1586-Baltimore-Weather-Examiner~y2009m1d21-Oceans-are-cooling-according-to-NASA

All those right wing scientist are conspiring

31,000 scientists reject 'global warming' agenda

http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=64734


Scientist says rising carbon level has little to do with hurricanes LA Times



CNN Meteorologist: ‘Definitely Some Inaccuracies’ in Gore Film
CNN- Communist News Network-

Edited by eaglecap - 01-May-2009 at 18:13
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Post Options Post Options   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2009 at 18:11
I agree with you Omar, but in your part of the world Science is common sense, here in the US (within the Bible belt and the far right) it is a boogey man. A dangerous tide really, unless it changes within the next decade.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2009 at 18:18
Yes. I have heard Micheal Savage speak. Its bullshit. No formality to add there at all. Aside from being xenphobic, he also is a bigot, all in the name of making a buck (well millions of "bucks" really). Anyone he doesn't agree with is an "idiot," and pretty much anyone but him has no clue what is going on. Not to mention that he calls Obama a marxist-stalinist (again there is a big difference between marxist communism and stalin) or dictator (how much more bullshit do you want?), or even a socialist-marxist (a even BIGGER differnece between communism and socialism). Its a show that is entertainment, not intelligent talk, and especially not news.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2009 at 18:20
Originally posted by es_bih

I agree with you Omar, but in your part of the world Science is common sense, here in the US (within the Bible belt and the far right) it is a boogey man. A dangerous tide really, unless it changes within the next decade.


ES- bih instead of character asassinating why don't you prove that the methodology of these evil right wing Christians is totally wrong. Go through their arguments bit by bit and disprove them. Instead, you call names. Of course you have to include Christianity when this issue should have nothing to do with religion.
Those evil Bible thumpers!! I don't care for them either but stick to the facts and try reading one of the articles I posted. Also post an article that supports your viewpoint and I will save it and read it later.

This is not about Michael Savage but about his guest so please stay on track es-bih. I will not comment on your view about Michael Save and you have a right to this opinion but we need to stick with the topic about global warming.


Edited by eaglecap - 01-May-2009 at 20:57
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Post Options Post Options   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2009 at 23:20
Because I would be wasting my time. It is a common fact that science is a more credible thing than wishful thinking.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2009 at 00:27
Originally posted by eaglecap

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim


I think that when it comes to the Earth climate it is such an incredibly complicated thing that we need to be careful about what we assume. Things aren't necessarily going to turn out the way we can predict.There is, I think, substantial evidence that the gasses we are releasing into the atmosphere are changing its make up, and therefore it is logical to assume they are doing something. That however is not my main objection to smoke stacks. My biggest objection is that its wasteful and untidy. The system is imperfect and we can improve it.We have to bear in mind that what we are doing to the Earth is still pretty minor, for example, if Yellowstone explodes whatever we are putting out is pretty much irrelevant. The climate changes all the time, while we might be a factor now, if God wished he could make us all look like amatures.What the effects of these gasses are is hard to determine. For example a recent study showed that the Antarctic ice shelf has actually increased recently - the hole in the Ozone layer altered the air currents bring more hot air to Antarctica south of Argentina, and more cold air to south of Australia. (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25349683-601,00.html)So I don't necessarily buy into what the effects are, and I don't buy into the doom and gloom.Even in worse case predictions, there is an upside. I mean, we'll get an inland sea. That could means an potential doubling or tripling of arable land in Aus.



I tend to agree with you Omar and "yes" is it very complicated. I am not a scientist and really I have only taken a meteorology class in community college. Some scientists, I have heard, talk about a relationship with increased solar flares and global warming. I know the volcanoes give off much more gases than man. I think man has some impact but it is exaggerated for political reasons. I really wish it was global warming because an ice age would be far worse. Coast to coast am has had numerous Scientists and some doomsayers talk about this and I wonder if this issue goes beyond politics- liberal/ conservative. Whether it is caused by a cycle of climate change or man ,either case, we are in trouble. Now, if Yellowstone erupts then the whole world is in trouble period. I have traveled through Yellowstone National Park and besides being incredibly beautiful that caldera is gigantic. I have seem numerous calderas around the world including Thera. I have not heard any news about YSN it lately.




Es-bih - who is this Professor and what is his work? What was his methodology? Of course it is easy to assassinate the message by saying it is presented by those evil right wing extremist. This goes beyond politics! I ask you why was Congress so afraid to have this man speak? Oh, he might humiliate Al Gore! I wonder if you even listened to the program or blew it off as right-wing propaganda.


Oh my the sea is rsing and soon LA will be an underwater city!! Run for the hills!!!


Rise of sea levels is 'the greatest lie ever told'


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/5067351/Rise-of-sea-levels-is-the-greatest-lie-ever-told.html


NASA data shows ocean's cooling
http://www.examiner.com/x-1586-Baltimore-Weather-Examiner~y2009m1d21-Oceans-are-cooling-according-to-NASA

All those right wing scientist are conspiring

31,000 scientists reject 'global warming' agenda

http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=64734


Scientist says rising carbon level has little to do with hurricanes LA Times



CNN Meteorologist: ‘Definitely Some Inaccuracies’ in Gore Film
CNN- Communist News Network-





NY Times:
The world's leading climate scientists said global warming has begun, is very likely caused by man, and will be unstoppable for centuries.... The phrase very likely translates to a more than 90 percent certainty that global warming is caused by man's burning of fossil fuels. That was the strongest conclusion to date, making it nearly impossible to say natural forces are to blame

Rosenthal, Elisabeth for The New York Times, February 2007



Federal Climate Change Science Program (US)

Studies ... show clear evidence of human influences on the climate system (due to changes in greenhouse gasesaerosols, and stratospheric ozone).... The observed patterns of change over the past 50 years cannot be explained by natural processes alone, nor by the effects of short-lived atmospheric constituents (such as aerosols and tropospheric ozone) alone.

www.climatescience.gov


Climate conditions in the past provide evidence that rising atmospheric carbon dioxide levels are associated with rising global temperatures. Human activities, primarily the burning of fossil fuels (coal, oil, and natural gas), and secondarily the clearing of land, have increased the concentration of carbon dioxide. methane, and other heat-trapping ("greenhouse") gases in the atmosphere...There is international scientific consensus that most of the warming observed over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities.

The world's scientists agree, again, that climate change is a big problem.

Washington Post. 5 February 2007.






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Post Options Post Options   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2009 at 00:29
Originally posted by eaglecap

Originally posted by es_bih

I agree with you Omar, but in your part of the world Science is common sense, here in the US (within the Bible belt and the far right) it is a boogey man. A dangerous tide really, unless it changes within the next decade.


ES- bih instead of character asassinating why don't you prove that the methodology of these evil right wing Christians is totally wrong. Go through their arguments bit by bit and disprove them. Instead, you call names. Of course you have to include Christianity when this issue should have nothing to do with religion.
Those evil Bible thumpers!! I don't care for them either but stick to the facts and try reading one of the articles I posted. Also post an article that supports your viewpoint and I will save it and read it later.

This is not about Michael Savage but about his guest so please stay on track es-bih. I will not comment on your view about Michael Save and you have a right to this opinion but we need to stick with the topic about global warming.

Of course you won't comment on my view of Savage because you know you have nothing to come back with. He has said enough biggoted material over the years to have proven himself a bigot, but albeit a smart one at that, too, because unlike hicks in some backwater shack, he is banking some serious cash on his bullshit. 

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