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Forum LockedGlobal Warming/climate change, what's your belief?

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Poll Question: Where does AE forumers stand on the issue?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Global Warming/climate change, what's your belief?
    Posted: 29-Dec-2007 at 07:25
Originally posted by elenos

At one time weather reporting was a dull affair and it still is for those have no interest in the fruitfulness of the coming year. Accurate records have been kept for there was no reason for to screw around with them for that would play havoc with weather forecasts on which the primary wealth of nations depend. It's like trying to look into the future for those on the land need to know how the year is going be like, less rainfall or more, hotter or colder temperatures and so on. The farmer wants to know what crops to plant, how many acres, what equipment to use and how many herd of sheep or cattle to run etc.

 
BTW, i just remembered something i wanted too ask you sometime ago! That is, if it doesn't put you out? Could you give me your opinion on how you would best describe what is going on in/with the weather, that is...  in the area in which you live? Perhaps you may have already done so and i could have missed it. Then could you point me in the direction that best expresses your views?
 
I hope you understand, seeing that i don't live in Australia and can't begin too draw an impression of  how the enviroment is differring from one year to the next, without being entirely speculative about it? Sure, i can look it up on the internet and draw my own conclusion's. But it does not seem the same as actually experiencing it first hand and sharing it with someone who is being entirely and scientifically inquisitive in nature about it; Though it's in an amateurish sort of way.
 

 

Over hundreds of years weather predictions have grown increasingly more technical for there there are some methods that work better than others and can give an extra edge to farmers. So if the weather experts say there is something up we need to listen, but those not living on the land miss out on the right reasons and go for the more sensational guesses like you say.  After WWII there was a spike in the weather warming patterns for all those countless munition explosions had taken place, atomic bomb etc. But over the last few years that previous spike has been annually exceeded world wide.

 
Quite right. If you already know this, then please forgive my presumptuousness. The science of meteorology has gotten better in time  and my guess is that a few of the reasons for the increase of qualitive knowledge were brought about and begun by two primary factors, but most certainly not limited to just those two. The first being the telegraph around the time of the 1830's i believe. Which allowed one weather station too communicate with another on weather conditions in the area, even over thousands of miles away, nearly instantaneously according to those times. The second would be, i think, was bringing all of it together by centralizing the collection of every single weather report into a national meteorological office around the time of the 1860's. Like i said, just a few small steps that led too an explosion of growth within that field throughout the 20th century.
 
As for the spike in the warming patterns, primarily right after WWII? I'm afraid too say, that is the first i have actually heard a comment like that before! Not that i am doubting your veracity for a moment! But if it pleases you to do so, could you supply or direct me to the information in which you had acquired this knowledge? I would very greatly appreciate it!
 


Edited by Panther - 29-Dec-2007 at 07:33
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Post Options Post Options   Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2007 at 09:06

What is happening in Australia is the weather is definitely warming in ways that even the casual observer can know about. The days are getting hotter and we get under half as much rain, dams everywhere are a third full. Melbourne in the south of Australia was always known to be cold, wet and miserable just about all the year around but not over the last few years, it’s like living in the south of France. St Kilda is the seaside hole that some types go to meet shady ladies in the night, is about to rename itself as the Costa Del St Kilda. (Local joke).

 

I met a peach on Brighton Beach and took her to St Kilda,

There in the park, in the dark, I learned her name was Hilda.

 

I digress from the subject. It shows we who can notice the changes are not devoid of humor. Sometimes I wonder if even the so-called greenies are bothered about doing anything weather change except trying to find a career path for themselves. Time and time again I have gone to meetings where the rules are very clear. Don’t say anything, don’t do anything, don’t even think, just sit down, shuttup and listen while a bunch of yuppies parade around trying to glorify themselves, they are incapable of knowing what humor is let alone weather change.   

 

As for charts I cannot find the ones on the net from WWII (doesn’t that always happen when you want to find something in a hurry) they are there, but these look interesting.

 

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change

 

http://www.aip.org/history/climate/summary.htm

 

http://environment.newscientist.com/article/dn12936-war-has-historic-links-to-global-climate-change.html

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Post Options Post Options   Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2007 at 19:21

Climate change is evident. Just look at how many natural disasters and climate related articles we are getting on the newspaper. Many regions experienced drastic weather records, like in Calgary. We reached the coldest tempterature one day, and the next day is warm as mid-summer.

God replaced a regular dice with 17 sides dice. It's annoying.
     
   
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Post Options Post Options   Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2007 at 22:38
The thing is that food is growing increasingly more costly as businesses hone in on using climate change to justify excessive price hikes. Sometimes they do have a case, but not all the time.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2007 at 00:53
Thank you for your observation.
 
As for this comment:
 
"Sometimes I wonder if even the so-called greenies are bothered about doing anything weather change except trying to find a career path for themselves."
 
While i certainly don't like pointing fingers and playing the blame game with anyone. The fact that around ten thousand people recently "flew" to the Bali conference from around the world, as well as having the building's air conditioner going full blast once it started, doesn't really help lend that much credibility to their cause. If they were really serious about it, they would have found otherways of representing themselves without adding that much more carbon dioxide to the atmosphere, that they keep bleating on about! In the age of the satellite & the internet, a video conference would have been the first logical choice, atleast in my opinion?
 
Secondly i noticed your opinion:
 
"Time and time again I have gone to meetings where the rules are very clear. Don’t say anything, don’t do anything, don’t even think, just sit down, shuttup and listen while a bunch of yuppies parade around trying to glorify themselves, they are incapable of knowing what humor is let alone weather change."
 
As you noted, that certainly is not conducive too learning anything about a subject that interests and concerns you very much! "If" that is your primary experience with the majority of such meetings, then it does indeed sound like they are glorifying themselves without being challenged, as well as expecting the audience to take in what sounds like to me to be their pure stylistic brand of propaganda. In which... i can't only help but to think of it as.
 
It is all the more pitiful when i realize, and even though i may not agree or be totally onboard with the idea of global warming/climate change as of yet, that is... being predominantly influenced by man's carbon footprint in the enviroment. My point is, though my intelligence is limited, i would never hold a meeting or gathering of such, that would limit the discussion in the extreme where only one point of view is allowed or with any other being severely frowned upon by the massed public gathering!  I am sorry too say that you experienced that with others who supposively share your belief's. (Special note: It is not my intention to come across as if i am pandering to you, so that i may come across as this great guy. But i am genuinely sorry that a possible scientific learning experience had been stunted by the fear of being challenged!)
 
However, of course, it shouldn't need to be said... that that doesn't seem to be only limited to the topic of global warming. But, i am afraid... that is what i think will happen once politics slowly takes hold of any discussion, no matter the importance in how one may view it. What i means is... it only appears to be becoming just another casualty of politics, instead of a topic for scientific learning and the passing on of acquired shared knowledge! I see a possible public backlash coming from this, "if" this continues on over the years?
 
Now on to the links you have generously supplied. I appreciate your sharing of them. It is a pity that you couldn't find the ones i asked for, but it was short notice, wasn't it? I have read all three and will re-read them too better digest what they are saying. Anyways, perhaps in time you may find the information by intentful purpose or quite by accident; Or maybe i might accidentally stumble upon the information in time?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2007 at 03:01
All good points, Panther, You know a lot more about the subject than you let on at first. I hate to point fingers as well, but if one fails to point out the bad of what is happening right now (and there is a lot) then the general public will continue to be manipulated and the larger issues slip through the many black holes. The next step after going to one of these meetings is to "volunteer" and giving away your time to stuff envelopes (you need a college degree to answer the telephone) includes regular donations that are quite sizeable. Of course there is buying books by those you have never heard of before, buying the obligatory Al Gore tapes etc and he's not short of a dollar as well, one of the top paid stars of the international lecture circuit.  
 
You have to hear the stories to believe them. One of the head honchos for Australia is this guy called John Seed. He lived in Australia untill he got enough credibility to get a green card and now lives in downtown Honolulu with no intention of ever returning. Err... But all the Australian operations for his particular brand of environmental religion (or whatever) are authorized by him and he collects the large profits from having a non-profit organization. In these anally rententive seminars any learning experience is stunted by an extreme fear of challenge (give me a hug and stop being so disruptive) but most who go along are comfortable with that style of learning, and sad to say so is the governments of Australia and America.
 
You are not pandering to me, we may as well argue the point for at least we understand about telling people to pull their head out of their bum and downsize their way of life no matter how rude it may sound. A lot of things are being done like the general introduction of LED light, but the full implications of learning using cleaner technology are enormous. By god, just imagine washing dishes or clothes by hand!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ///Macculate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2007 at 03:19
The earth, as anything else, goes through cycles. Whether this cycle is accelerated by anthropogenic factors remain a mystery; however, even if we determined that it was indeed humans that has caused a shift in the cycle, we are a bit too late to "stop" global warming. Thermal inertia shall take its due course and we can only just sit on the beach and have a margarita.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2007 at 07:49
Great discussion in this thread guys - keep up the great work!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2007 at 08:49

Certainly the earth does go through historical cycles of cooling and warming that seem to appear without warning and then go away again. What I mean by “spike” is those events that go outside the historical curve that nations learn by real time events over the ages. Usually these spikes settle down and all those who panicked about world wide change are left with egg all over their face. Like the little boy that cried “wolf” too often those who say this time around really is different are being relegated to loony bin reports of UFO’s, crop circles, Roswell and so on. But if a spike lasts for three years or more then it is a climatic trend and calls for forward thinking in what to do if the situation gets worse.

 

Sit on the beach and have a margarita? Isn’t that they were doing when the Asian tsunami came? Changes in weather conditions are made by a combination of circumstances within the earth and sky and are not very polite to anybody in the way they can happen, too late to say we should have been already prepared. I don’t know about thermal inertia but I have heard of bureaucratic inertia, Sir Humphrey. Who said we have to stop what is happening? The point is to prepare for what may happen and be aware we are skating on thin ice so to speak.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote ///Macculate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2007 at 15:40
Oh, and Al Gore going around the world in his private jet preaching about global warming is ludicrous IMO.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2007 at 23:38
You are quite right Macculate. What the developed world needs is a whole new agenda of cutting back where sacrifices are made and seen to be made by those in the hallways of power. We are so comfortable in our present groove of existance there seems little point in just us cutting back while everybody else is out enjoying themselves on the rainbow of energies that will sooner or later prove unsustainable.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote beorna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jan-2008 at 09:48
It is good that the politicians awake from their long sleep for about more than 3 decades. But on the other hand it is my impression that they discovered now a new possibility to make big businesses. In Germany e.g. they create one new tax after the other to save the nature, allthough the money will be used for something else, some groups are offering the nuclear energie as the new green energy. The nuclear waste they have completely forgotten. I fear there will be no real change in politics, just a new market.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jan-2008 at 10:45
You summed up the situation very nicely, beorna. In Australia we will be now paying 20% more for gas and electricity because of "climate change" as if that was any sort of explanation at all.   
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Post Options Post Options   Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jan-2008 at 06:51
Originally posted by beorna

It is good that the politicians awake from their long sleep for about more than 3 decades. But on the other hand it is my impression that they discovered now a new possibility to make big businesses. In Germany e.g. they create one new tax after the other to save the nature, allthough the money will be used for something else, some groups are offering the nuclear energie as the new green energy. The nuclear waste they have completely forgotten. I fear there will be no real change in politics, just a new market.


Clap So great you pointed it out. These among others such as the "carbon credit" money making scams are bringing huge profits for many companies.

Here's one of today by the way:

http://news.independent.co.uk/business/news/article3301065.ece
The beginning of a revolution is in reality the end of a belief - Le Bon
Destroy first and construction will look after itself - Mao
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jan-2008 at 05:02
Originally posted by elenos

You summed up the situation very nicely, beorna. In Australia we will be now paying 20% more for gas and electricity because of "climate change" as if that was any sort of explanation at all.   
 
You brought up a good point. How much of that is being reported as being due to climate change vs. other nations increasingly industrializing? Is it considered an interconnected issue?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jan-2008 at 06:41
You don't think the Government would explain? Over here they simply don't.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ponce de Leon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jan-2008 at 17:37
There is Global warming down in Mars. Wonder if we had anything to do with it....
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Post Options Post Options   Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jan-2008 at 20:19
We have nothing to do with global warming on Mars but we humans on earth have everything to do with screwing up the weather patterns by excess consumption.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ulrich von hutten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jan-2008 at 20:55
Originally posted by Knights

Great discussion in this thread guys - keep up the great work!
 
Thank you, Preceptor, thank you....

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Post Options Post Options   Quote ///Macculate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jan-2008 at 19:56
Furthermore, let us all listen to Mr. John Travolta, who is "doing his part" to fight global warming, with his several private jets!
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