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Forum LockedGeopolitics of the Southern Hemisphere

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    Posted: 01-Feb-2009 at 15:40
The thread Zimbabwe...What the hell????...  brings up a point.  If events in Zimbabwe are not the concern of European states or of North America, whose might they be?
 
Certainly they are the concern of southern African states because of:
 
-Instability and uncertainty in inter-state relationships,
 
-Economic disruption in regional industry (especially agriculture) and commerce,
 
-Refugee issues including costs and resource allocation in neighboring states.
 
African states have thus far showed little initiative in addressing the problems that are apparent in Zimbabwe.  Most of them are not well positioned to either provide adequate levels of relief or to initiate either non-violent pressure on the Mugabe regime, or to take direct action against it as in Uganda. 
 
So who "gets their hands dirty?"  Probably none of the southern African states, as they seem to be playing a waiting game to see who winds up winning after Mugabe's carcass is cold.  Outside powers?
 
The outside power that has recently shown some geopolitical direction toward southern Africa is Brazil.  There is an "association" of Portuguese speaking peoples that includes Brazil as well as Angola and Mozambique.
 
So, why do we think that might be?  If the interests of Angola and Mozambique are impacted by events in Zimbabwe, how might that effect the interests of Brazil?  Should/would Brazil become more invovled in matters such as those in Zimbabwe?
 
Economics?  Politics?  Ramifications?  Problems?  Potential consequences?
 
As there have been communities of Indian decent in some of these southern African states for a long time, does India have any potential interests in the southern African states and their affairs especially as those affect Indians?
 
Give it some thought.  Geopolitics doesn't stop at NATO/Russian interests.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2009 at 15:55

Geopolitics of the Southern Hemisphere? What do you mean by that? To put in the same group countries like New Zealand, Australia, Southern South America and ... Mozambique, Angola and Zimbabwe?

The title of the thread should had been Subsaharan Africa geopolitics. The Southern Hemisphere is a lot larger than that region, and includes other realities.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2009 at 16:13
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Geopolitics of the Southern Hemisphere? What do you mean by that? To put in the same group countries like New Zealand, Australia, Southern South America and ... Mozambique, Angola and Zimbabwe?

The title of the thread should had been Subsaharan Africa geopolitics. The Southern Hemisphere is a lot larger than that region, and includes other realities.

 

 
Start with the subject as stated.  Connections to current events are the best way to get something going around AE; if it is not in the news, no one seems to be interested.
 
Geograhically, the subject already connects South America, Africa and the Indian Ocean littoral.
 
It can be expanded later, or you can start your own thread on something below the Equator.
 
 


Edited by pikeshot1600 - 01-Feb-2009 at 16:15
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2009 at 16:28
South America is in no way in the same situation of Africa, nor share the same historical or cultural heritage and less degree of development, except in the mind of badly informed foreigners. That was all my point.
 
I leave this thread now. I'll come back if a see a thread about geopolitics of the Western Hemisphere, of South America or Latin America.
 
 
Thanks.


Edited by pinguin - 01-Feb-2009 at 16:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2009 at 19:46
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

South America is in no way in the same situation of Africa, nor share the same historical or cultural heritage.
How about Olmeq civilization aren't thay Afro-Indians?Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2009 at 04:21
I am a little apprehensive about adding Oceanic nations to the geopolitical concerns of Sub-Saharan Africa, for the simple reason I find it difficult to see where they concern eachother. Australia receives refugees from Africa, and sends humanitarian aid that way, but beyond that there is little linkage. However, I will run with it as that is the title of this thread.

Zimbabwe is a danger to its neighbours, as an unstable nation almost inevitably always becomes. It becomes a breeding ground for harmful non-state actors such as smugglers, drug manufacturers, pirates and the like. If she continues down the path she is going, she will likely also become home to pseudo-feudal persons who cement their own regional powerbase as the central authority crumbles.

The refugee situation is becoming acute. One only has to look at how South Africa and Botswana are inundated with the starving and desperate to realise the scale, it is in the several of millions. It was this inundation of desperate and lawless persons which last year sparked those terrible and deadly riots in South Africa. Measures such as electrified fences are already being erected by concerned neighbours to check the flood of human desperation.

Casualties as a result of Mugabe's misgovernment already number in the 10s of thousands due to otherwise preventable starvation, violence, government sponsored repression and disease. In scale it is comparable to Amin's Uganda, we only lack the rumours of ethnic cleansing and cannibalism to make it seem equally outrageous. Over time, with Mugabe's clearly disintergrating grip on reality, these problems will only become more acute.

But remembering Idi Amin, it was not until he actually breached the sovereignty of one of his neighbours (Kenya) that decisive action was taken. Though even before that, Israel took it upon itself to unilaterally deal with Amin's willingness to harbour terrorists.

Kenya's invasion of Uganda was a miracle for Ugandans. One can only hope for the sake of the lives of today's Zimbabweans that Mugabe will make as reckless a move as Idi Amin did, and bring down on himself the full weight of his neighbours.

Frankly it will have to be done by South Africa, only that nation has the sheer muscle and the political pre-eminence requires to successfully stage an intervention. So far they haven't had the sense of humanity or the balls to put boots on the ground though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2009 at 04:37
I'm not entirely sure that we can consider that there is a southern hemisphere geopolitical region. Australia is not affected at all by Latin America, which in turn is affected far more by North America than by Africa.

In the case of Zimbabwe, Commonwealth nations have been the most vocal and active in opposing Mugabe. Ironically, the more white and further from Africa, the more vocal. Based on available evidence it certainly appears that Zimbabwe is in the British commonwealths zone of influence.
Quote As there have been communities of Indian decent in some of these southern African states for a long time, does India have any potential interests in the southern African states and their affairs especially as those affect Indians?

Given India's history, perhaps they just haven't thought of it yet, or perhaps they are lacking African seaports. If there were a British intervention I'll bet India would provide a large number of troops.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2009 at 11:32
Originally posted by Suren Suren wrote:

Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

South America is in no way in the same situation of Africa, nor share the same historical or cultural heritage.
How about Olmeq civilization aren't thay Afro-Indians?Big smile
 
Not in your wildest dreams LOL
 
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

I'm not entirely sure that we can consider that there is a southern hemisphere geopolitical region. Australia is not affected at all by Latin America, which in turn is affected far more by North America than by Africa...
 
Latin America is affected quite a bit by North America, Europe, East Asia and even the Middle East. Just slighly by Australia. And by Africa only by what we see on TV watching the BBC. I bet Africa affect us about the same that Afganistan or New Guinea, at least by now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2009 at 13:23
Maybe it was bad terminology on my part.  Make it Geopolitics IN the Southern Hemisphere.
 
The concensus seems to be there is no east-west geopolitical logic in the Southern Hemisphere.  Or have we just not thought about it much?
 
I was specifically interested in the developing Brazil-Africa connection and the Community of Portuguese Speaking Countries...how these might affect geopolitics, say, in the South Atlantic littoral.
 
  


Edited by pikeshot1600 - 02-Feb-2009 at 13:28
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2009 at 20:21
Well, open a tread then about South Atlantic geopolitics, so we could discuss about the Falkland war Wink
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2009 at 09:29
I would just like to add my voice to the chorus that finds the title Geopolitics of the Southern Hemisphere totally ambiguous and unworkable in any meaningfull discussion. Even if u put a hasty "IN" in it.

Edited by malizai_ - 11-May-2009 at 10:20
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