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Forum LockedGeography of the Imperial Age

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Ikki View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Sep-2006 at 17:47
Yes of course, one of the greatest was the expedition of Sebastián Vizcaíno to North América in 1602. The galleon of Manila come back from Orient directly from more or less Japan to north California in a voyage of 6 months (7-9 to Acapulco) So because the crews and the own ship need to rest and provisions, the viceroy of New Spain sent an expedition with the only purpose of explore the pacific coast of actual USA for help to the galleons. In previous years the spanish tried to explore there with the expeditios of Cortés in Baja California and Cabrillo in 1542; then because the galleon of Manila saw this coast and they couldn't approach, Vizcaíno went there.

Vizcaíno went to California with cartographers, landing there and fighting with natives, they went until the actual state of Oregón and maped the main points of the californian coast. Unfortunatelly, the traders of the Manila galleon don't want use his maps and recommendations, because they didn't want that the crew lost any time before landing in Acapulco Unhappy. There are other examples on the caribean sea but i havn't details.

In the dutch side, you have to the own Tasman.

Be careful, we are talking when the trade routes was more or less stablished, but don't forget that at the beginning the same ship that was exploring was a trade ship, so you have the portuguese in actual Indonesia searching the spice's islands and at the same time trading.



About "Terra Australis", counting the expeditions of Tasman you must consider too the less known, but not less wonderful, spanish (i know, again the spanish expeditions Dead, sorry) expeditions of Mendaña, Fernández de Quirós and Torres (these last two portuguese under spanish service), with the only purpose of discover the southern continent, discovering a lot of pacific islands that is

Álvaro de Mendaña, 1567-1569
Álvaro de Mendaña and Fernández de Quirós, 1595-1596
Luis Váez de Torres and Fernández de Quirós, 1605-1607

http://gutenberg.net.au/pages/torres.html


I forget it, Tasman maped the NW coast of Australia Wink




Edited by Ikki - 13-Sep-2006 at 12:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Sep-2006 at 02:53
No problem, give us all the information you can about Spanish explorations. It won't hurt and atleast I read it with enthusiasm.

Thanks, can you also talk about the Spanish explorations when the routes were not yet known?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Sep-2006 at 18:00
Hi, i'm here again.

Quote Thanks, can you also talk about the Spanish explorations when the routes were not yet known?


Yes of course. In fact, the more famous voyages of the XV-XVI centuries was exploring new routes as Colón, Bartolomé Días and Vasco da Gama. Here we have three points: the place from where you begin the travel and finally the place where you want arrive; in the middle how you could go from one point to another, that is the Winds. The entire age of explorations, the nature of the voyages are conditionated by Eolus, in the northern hemisphere the winds (and sea streams) turn following the clock, that is for example from western Europe along the coast of North África crossing the ocean between Canary Islands and Cape Verde to the Caribbean sea, from here from the México Gulf to New England and from here to Western Europe again; in the southern ocean contrary the wind and sea streams turn counter the clock from South África to Guinea Gulf, from here to north Brasil then go down to Argentia and from here again to South África. This is equal for the others oceans with exceptions: for example the navigation in the Indic oceans are conditionated by the Monsons and there the Bengal Gulf and the Arabic sea had winds-sea streams turning with the clock, contrary to the entire Indic ocean.

Colón knew about the navigation's conditions on the eastern Atlantic ocean and knew exactly from where he must take the winds for go to the west. Curiously, and probably because he was a good sailor (althought a crazy man) he could take at the first attempt the route for come back to Europe, althought the best route for go to América (followed by the treasure fleets in the XVI century) was lightly to the south of his first voyage route, in the middle of Canary Islands and Cape Verde to Lesser Antilles, and not from Canary islands direct to Cuba, and not from Cape Verde to Trinidad like in his third voyage.

Contrary, the spanish in the Pacific had a lot of problems triying to stablish a route across the Pacific ocean, from América to Phillipines and spice's islands, from here to América again. No problem with the first point, going from América to Asia, but at the moment that they was there was impossible for 40 years take a good way for come back, all the expeditions failed to take the route because the complicated system of islands, winds and sea in actual Indonesia and Phillipines: many of they sunk there as the expedition of Villalobos in the 40's,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruy_L%C3%B3pez_de_Villalobos

many more must came back to... Europe (this the case of the expedition of Magellan and Elcano), a few tryed to go counter  the wind (succesfully, but finished the travel totally tired if i remember well) and finally in the 60's of the XVI century Urdaneta stablished a good route following the Kuro Shivo sea stream and winds: he went to north until Japan, then a few milles north of Hawaii across the Pacific ocean to western coast of USA and from there to Acapulco.

This is the way that the spanish could to stablish the routes that they followed along three centuries.

Tomorrow: the portugueses.

Edited. I put a few more information.


Edited by Ikki - 24-Sep-2006 at 11:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinghui Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Oct-2007 at 05:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kafkas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2008 at 03:54
Too many posts trying to claim Piri Reis' work as their nation's LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2008 at 03:41

I don't know why some try so hard to make Piri Reis seem as insignificant as possible without ever reading anything he wrote or studying his works in any detail.

1. - In Piri Reis book, Kitab-i Bahriye we are told that a "world map" was drawn, the American map is only one section.
 
2. - His maps are some of the most accurate drawn, which still amaze those that study them today such as recent Russian studies.
 
3. - He drew the first known map of Antartica.
 
 
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