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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pebbles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2009 at 10:41
Originally posted by calvo calvo wrote:

 
 
Ugric, Samoyed, and Turco-Mongol people of Siberia don't like to be called "East Asians" because they are not.Their habitat is in "north Asia" rather than "East Asia".

Culturally, Khanti, Mansi, and Nenets have too little in common with China or Japan, just as Kazakhs and Kyrgyz are "Central Asians" with little in common culturally with East Asia.



 
 
Racially,the Mongoloid-looking Siberians are in NE or East Asian grouping.Kazakhs and Kyrgyz  are of different genetic stock,they aint East Asian ethnically even if they speak Mandarin and use chopsticks.
 
This person rejects " Asian " totally in any connection to those Siberians,rather having strong preference for the word " Eurasian " because there are Caucasoid-looking Mari & omi dwell in the same geographical proximity.
 
No,they don't have problem with Mongoloid.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2009 at 11:14
Originally posted by pebbles pebbles wrote:

 
Racially,the Mongoloid-looking Siberians are in NE or East Asian grouping.Kazakhs and Kyrgyz  are of different genetic stock,they aint East Asian ethnically even if they speak Mandarin and use chopsticks.
 
This person rejects " Asian " totally in any connection to those Siberians,rather having strong preference for the word " Eurasian " because there are Caucasoid-looking Mari & omi dwell in the same geographical proximity.
 
No,they don't have problem with Mongoloid.
 
 


I don't know what you mean by the "same racial grouping". Even East Asian populations are diferent genetically from each other; genetic differences even exist within the Chinese population from north to south, east to west....

Every person has his own preference of what he wants to be.
A person born and raised in Holland could identify himself as "Dutch" or "European" depending on how he has been brought up.
The same way, a Spaniard from Valencia could identify himself primarily as "valenciano", Spanish, or European depending on his preference.

I don't think that they reject the name "Asian" on racial grounds, more likely on geographical on cultural grounds.
How many times must I tell you that it's the cultural and linguistic identity that defines a nationality, not the genes.

Spaniards, Britons, and North African Berbers share a considerable amount of genetic affinity, yet you can never convince them to be the "same people" because culturally they're very different between one and the other.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2009 at 11:38
Originally posted by pebbles pebbles wrote:

 
Kazakhs and Kyrgyz  are of different genetic stock,they aint East Asian ethnically even if they speak Mandarin and use chopsticks.
 


I don't think that members of the Kazakh and Kyrgyz ethnic minorities in China would be rather impressed to read this comment, especially those who are integrated into the mainstream Chinese society.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2009 at 22:06
Originally posted by pebbles pebbles wrote:

 
 
Racially,the Mongoloid-looking Siberians are in NE or East Asian grouping.Kazakhs and Kyrgyz  are of different genetic stock,they aint East Asian ethnically even if they speak Mandarin and use chopsticks.
 
What do you mean by "NE or East Asian grouping" for Mongoloid looking Siberians?
 
For example, Mongoid Siberians like Sakha or Khakases do have genetic similarity with Kazakhs and Kyrgyzs and all of them belong to Turkic linguistic family.
 
Originally posted by pebbles pebbles wrote:

This person rejects " Asian " totally in any connection to those Siberians,rather having strong preference for the word " Eurasian " because there are Caucasoid-looking Mari & omi dwell in the same geographical proximity.
 
Who are "omi" ? Did you mean Komi?
 
Komi and Mari don't leave in Siberia, geographically, they are in Europe.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pebbles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Apr-2009 at 12:51
Originally posted by Sarmat Sarmat wrote:

 
 
 
In that case, please don't ascribe the opinion of a handful group of freaks to the Swedish people as a whole.
 
 
 
 
It's these Swede nationals & Swede-related individuals infest other forums with racist views of non-White people.Also,at least one had used all the racial slurs in the book in his posts.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Apr-2009 at 13:49
Originally posted by pebbles pebbles wrote:

Originally posted by Sarmat Sarmat wrote:

 
 
 
In that case, please don't ascribe the opinion of a handful group of freaks to the Swedish people as a whole.
 
 
 
 
It's these Swede nationals & Swede-related individuals infest other forums with racist views of non-White people.Also,at least one had used all the racial slurs in the book in his posts.
 
 


I don't know what class of forums you've been visiting. If you want to visit Nazi or ultra-nationalist forums online you'd find plenty of them (these nutters are very active), but they usually represent a VERY SMALL MINORITY of the public opinion.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pebbles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Apr-2009 at 14:14
Originally posted by calvo calvo wrote:

 
 
Originally posted by pebbles pebbles wrote:

 
 
 
It's these Swede nationals & Swede-related individuals infest other forums with racist views of non-White people.Also,at least one had used all the racial slurs in the book in his posts.
 
 


I don't know what class of forums you've been visiting. If you want to visit Nazi or ultra-nationalist forums online you'd find plenty of them ( these nutters are very active ), but they usually represent a VERY SMALL MINORITY of the public opinion.


 
 
It's some DNA-related forum with several hundred registered members and low hourly/daily traffic.The rules are there,but the admin and mods turn a blind eye,are lenient on usage of foul language & racial slurs in posts there ( very shocking to me ! ).
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Apr-2009 at 15:58
Originally posted by calvo calvo wrote:



I don't know what class of forums you've been visiting. If you want to visit Nazi or ultra-nationalist forums online you'd find plenty of them (these nutters are very active), but they usually represent a VERY SMALL MINORITY of the public opinion.
 
Exactly
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pebbles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2009 at 16:04
I always have reservation about DNA discussion in cyberspace.As I've anticipated,that place attracts racist-inclined individuals.
 
For the first time in my online venture since 2005,that forum was where I received nasty racist slandering & harrasing e-mails.Also,one Nordic member called me a gook ( first time online for me ) in his native European language.The European moderator removed it.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Falchion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2009 at 16:40
I would like to address using visual appearance as evidence of a persons distant origin.

The picture on the first page does not imply that the person would have any asiatic origin despite his eyes. Facial features vary greatly even among very homogenous populations (like the Finns are known to be). Phenotypical categorizationg of humans by cranial measurements and facial features has become almost obsolete due to modern genetic research methods.
People from the same genotype can vary greatly in physical appearance.

A person who has a slightly different skin or hair tone, foreign looking facial features etc. isn't a good indication of even a mixed origin if you go back any further than a couple of generations. These features vary and change so quickly in just a couple of generations that you can't tell a person has Asiatic ancestors just because he has dark hair or "slanted eyes" nor can you say a person is Nordic if his skin tone is unusually white or has blue eyes (for example there are indigenous fair blond and brown haired but very dark skinned Aboriginals).



Edited by Falchion - 18-Apr-2009 at 16:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2009 at 16:51
Originally posted by pebbles pebbles wrote:

I always have reservation about DNA discussion in cyberspace.As I've anticipated,that place attracts racist-inclined individuals.
 
For the first time in my online venture since 2005,that forum was where I received nasty racist slandering & harrasing e-mails.Also,one Nordic member called me a gook ( first time online for me ) in his native European language.The European moderator removed it.
 
I wouldn't take the opinions written on these forums too seriously.
It's a shame, but many forums about human genetic diversity might not start off that way, but they are often quickly overtaken by Nazis because these fanatics love to use these apparently "serious" media to propagate their racialist ideas. Some of the smarter ones manipulate what is valid DNA data to draw biassed, and often errórneos, conclusions; which is what I find the most disturbing.
I also browsed through many of these blogs and sites, but never bothered to sign onto any of them because just by reading a few threads I came to the conclusion that most members had somewhat "Hitlerian views" (or it could well be the same member signing on with different profiles); and I wouldn't waste my time arguing with Nazis.
 
If you want to learn about human DNA and genetic history, the best way is to consult proper academic books written by known and attested geneticists, or to consult with University faculties; or the Genographic Project.
 
As a European, all I can tell you is that in most of the Western European mainstream, no one gives a toss about "racial purity". At least among most of the people I got to know in London, Barcelona, and Madrid; most of us would feel proud, rather than ashamed, if we found out that we had recent African and Asian ancestry.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Falchion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2009 at 16:57
What I find most interesting is how the Sami population appears to have actually very significant and solid ancient (pre Ice Age) western European origins common with the Basques and even North African Berbers. Even though they have often been considered most Asiatic Europeans solely because of their physical features and language.
Looks can fool you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pebbles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2009 at 17:17
Originally posted by calvo calvo wrote:

 
 
I wouldn't take the opinions written on these forums too seriously.
 
It's a shame, but many forums about human genetic diversity might not start off that way, but they are often quickly overtaken by Nazis because these fanatics love to use these apparently "serious" media to propagate their racialist ideas. Some of the smarter ones manipulate what is valid DNA data to draw biassed, and often errórneos, conclusions; which is what I find the most disturbing.
 
 
 
 
 
Yeah ... I agree with your assessment.
 
That forum is a low quality with no intellectual serious discussions at all.Mostly some youngsters talk shit about phenotypes and ethnic classification of posted photos.You have Poles try to prove having " Germanic genes "  & a percentage of Poles can pass for Scandinavians and Germans LOL.I wonder if those individuals have self-esteem issue because rarely don't I get to read Germanic people claim kinship with them LOL.
 
I shouldn't visit that forum any more from now on.I practically learned nothing there other than read their stupid arguments.
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fennica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2009 at 18:36
I stumbled here on accident, and really could not belive my eyes!!

Lets really clarify to a certain Norwigian;
-Finnos are not Mongoloid. At all.

Such claims are as outdated as claims that Swedes brought civilization to us. It's offensive from you to speak out such rubbish.

Just recently, DNA studies have shown that Finns are actually the first Europeans, as we are not Indo Europeans.
-We are not Germanic either, and intermarriage with Russians was a rare thing indeed. Seclusive we are, and that is why we have our unique blood-heritage.

I'll skim this thread later, I just wanted to tell that Norwigian to keep idiotic opinions to himself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2009 at 18:49
Originally posted by Sarmat Sarmat wrote:

 
Komi and Mari don't leave in Siberia, geographically, they are in Europe.
 
 
Actually, the Komi people live on both sides of the Urals. They live on the eastern side, so technically they live in both Asia and Europe!!
 
Not that any of all those peoples mentioned have anything to do with Finns proper.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2009 at 23:46
Originally posted by Jams Jams wrote:

Actually, the Komi people live on both sides of the Urals. They live on the eastern side, so technically they live in both Asia and Europe!!
 
Not that any of all those peoples mentioned have anything to do with Finns proper.
 
 
Komi republic where the overwhelming majority of Komi live is located West of the Urals in the North-Eastern European part of Russia.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2009 at 23:52
Originally posted by Fennica Fennica wrote:

I stumbled here on accident, and really could not belive my eyes!!

Lets really clarify to a certain Norwigian;
-Finnos are not Mongoloid. At all.

Such claims are as outdated as claims that Swedes brought civilization to us. It's offensive from you to speak out such rubbish.

Just recently, DNA studies have shown that Finns are actually the first Europeans, as we are not Indo Europeans.
-We are not Germanic either, and intermarriage with Russians was a rare thing indeed. Seclusive we are, and that is why we have our unique blood-heritage.

I'll skim this thread later, I just wanted to tell that Norwigian to keep idiotic opinions to himself.
 
It depends on whether you discuss just Finns of Finland or Finno-Ugric people in general. There is no doubt that Finns of Finland are Europoids. However, a number of Finno-Ugirc ethnicities are Mongoloids. Also, marriages between Finno-Ugric people and Russians are very common in Russia.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fennica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2009 at 08:34
Originally posted by Sarmat Sarmat wrote:


It depends on whether you discuss just Finns of Finland or Finno-Ugric people in general. There is no doubt that Finns of Finland are Europoids. However, a number of Finno-Ugirc ethnicities are Mongoloids. Also, marriages between Finno-Ugric people and Russians are very common in Russia.
'tis true, Ugri-people have been mixed and are in the brink of annihilation.

Magyar blood is on both sides of the border between Hungary/Ukraine, and they were unfortunate to choose a contested, lush and rich lands to settle.
As a result, they have been involved in constant wars, occupations and attempts of compleate assimilations(Ottomans).
 Magyars have language which has elements of Finnic, but with few thousand years of separation, only the rhythm of the language remains the same.

Ugri(and few Finnos tribes) in the modern-day Russia were also unfortunate.
Novgorod had a very large percentage of Finnos blood, but nowadays only few small tribes of Ugri remain, and they are being systematically assimilated. That is due Moscowian rule.
-No kidding, they were denied their own language during Soviet era(and Inkeri-Finnos from current St.Petersburg area also were deported to arkangel in droves), but those restrictions are again in place, and 'tis only matter of time before all Ugri are lost.

Both Magyar and Ugri were in the areas conqured by the Mongols, and there are connections between the Ugri and Magyar in general.

But people tend to forget that although Finnos have the cousin-language of Ugri and Magyar, there is little similarities anymore.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2009 at 09:09
Originally posted by pebbles pebbles wrote:

Can some fellow European forumites here shed light on squabble between Swedish and Finnish in real life and cyberspace ?!
 
Do these 2 general populations get along ?  Finns don't seem to express dislikes for Danes and Norwegians.


In general, Swedes and Finns have a quite brotherly relationship. As in any such relatioship, there is healthy competion and teasing. Most of it is entirely toungue in cheek. The most spectacular example is the hockey games: both sides often doesn't care that much about the final result in the World Cup and the like, as long as they get to kick the other side out of the tournament. There are always nut-jobs on each side though, particularly on the internet. Never judge people from some morons on the net.


Originally posted by pebbles pebbles wrote:

 
Why ?  Swedish still have imperial attitudes toward the Finns?

No.

Originally posted by pebbles pebbles wrote:


Finland became independent since early 20th century,why the country keeps Swedish as second official language ?

Because there is a large minority of Finns who speak Swedish as mother tongue - it's not related to the state of Sweden. The number has dwindled from 20% to 5% since the independence however. Similarly, there is a small minority of Swedes who are Finnish-speaking, and their language is official language in Sweden (meänkieli, or "Torne valley Finnish").
 
Quote
Just recently, DNA studies have shown that Finns are actually the first Europeans, as we are not Indo Europeans.


Any study that claims to determine any "first European" is bullshit. All alarm bells should be ringing when you see such a statement.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2009 at 09:24
Originally posted by Sarmat Sarmat wrote:

Originally posted by Jams Jams wrote:

Actually, the Komi people live on both sides of the Urals. They live on the eastern side, so technically they live in both Asia and Europe!!
 
Not that any of all those peoples mentioned have anything to do with Finns proper.
 
 
Komi republic where the overwhelming majority of Komi live is located West of the Urals in the North-Eastern European part of Russia.
 
Most of them do, true. But those "republics", despite their names, don't always fit perfectly with the ethnicity they're named after. It's the Russians who named the republics, and sometimes they were a bit arbitrary with the borders, back in the day.Cool


Edited by Jams - 04-May-2009 at 09:24
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