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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jun-2005 at 04:16

 

The gold forint of queen Mary I.

In one side the coat of arms of the hungarian-angevins, on the other St. Ladislaus.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jun-2005 at 12:54
Originally posted by Constantine XI Constantine XI wrote:

Originally posted by Midas Midas wrote:

Anatolia known as the land of mothers... THe real history of Turkish flag is, it's taken from Byzantines when conquer Istanbul in 1453 and they took it from older Anatolians... Moon was the symbol of motherearth and star was the symbol of mothers of Anatolians... So Anatolians were also rulled by a lot of women... Also Amazones are from Anatolia...

This is off topic so sorry about that. But I read once that Byzantium had the symbol of the moon since it was saved from an attack by Philip of Macedon. Apparently the light of the moon betrayed a planned night attack by Philip's men so that the Byzantines and their Athenian allies were able to stop the city being captured. In gratitude for this deliverance the ancient Byzantines adopted the moon as part of the symbolic paraphernalia of their city. I only read this once so I am not sure how valid this is. If someone could enlighten things further then please do. The rest of you, do better than me and stick to the topic.

The Byzanthine flag has nothing to do with older Ottoman flag.or Turkish flag. It symbolized the unity of east and west. But if you mean the flag of Istanbul (old Constantinopole) during the reign of Byzanthines, the symbols were totally Christian ones.

The main Ottoman flag which has three crescents on it was adopted by Alaeddin Keykubad, the Anatolian Seljuk sultan khan, to a far western "uchbeg", Ertugrul Beg. Another legend tells us that that flag was inspired by the dream of Gazi Osman Beg, when he saw his empire would rule the world. The three crescent symbol was a pure Turkic one.

The later Ottoman flag of a crescent and an eight pointed star was the symbol of universal rule and God's will since the shamanistic times. It was used on "shaman otag"s since thousands of years. Ottoman ruled that flag to symbolize the universal rule in three different continents, and the God's will's power. The red background symbolized the "west" and "western Turks". It still keeps its same format except the new style in crescent and the new five pointed star. These are the latest Ottoman symbols, shows our state being the successor state of the empire.

No women have ruled us during history oficially, except Tansu Ciller, but inoficially, we have been ruled by European women for long time periods. For example, Sultan Suleyman Khan didnt rule the empire at all, but Hurrem, a Tatar-Slavic mix woman, who was the "gözde" of Kanunî. Oficially or not, all women rulings in our history were horrible disasters for us. Sorry for potential feminists among us, but women cant rule, they arent created for such specific and complicated jobs. We cant oppose natural laws. Man rulezz...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the scourge of God Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jun-2005 at 17:52

mod edit



Edited by Temujin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Menippos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jun-2005 at 06:18
LOL
CARRY NOTHING
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jun-2005 at 22:49
I think women can be capable given the right political apparatus to work in. Look at the British Empire, one of the most successful ever to reign. It began under a woman (Elizabeth I) with the official Imperial annexation of Newfoundland, reached the height of its power and splendour under another woman (Victoria - how suitable a name), and finally successfully made the peaceful transition from Imperialist power to modern national state under a third woman (the current Elizabeth II). So the British Empire began, climaxed and concluded in the best way possible all under female monarchs, not too shabby a record considering virtually every other reigning monarch in British history has been a man.
It is not the challenges a people face which define who they are, but rather the way in which they respond to those challenges.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jun-2005 at 06:02

 

Mary II (Maria Theresia) was an interesting personality. She was a child of her age and she always emphasized that women have to accept their subjection by ther husbands. Still she was who really ruled instead of her imperial husband. (Who was expert in finances, and paid the war of his wife.  ) She ruled as an weak women who needs advices from her advisor, but she was the one who decided. I think her main talent was finding the adequate person for the adequate job.

her painting by Martin van Meytens:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2005 at 21:28

Just saw this thread:

I think it is ironic that before the French Revolution, there were various monarchs who were women:

Elizabeth of England

Maria Theresa of Austria and Hungary

Catherine of Russia

As well as very influential mistresses and regents (in France and Spain).

After the great emancipation of the French Revolution, the female seems to have been relegated to the boudoir. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jul-2005 at 07:12
Originally posted by pikeshot1600 pikeshot1600 wrote:

Just saw this thread:

I think it is ironic that before the French Revolution, there were various monarchs who were women:

Elizabeth of England

Maria Theresa of Austria and Hungary

Catherine of Russia

As well as very influential mistresses and regents (in France and Spain).

After the great emancipation of the French Revolution, the female seems to have been relegated to the boudoir. 

Well, for the last 200 years monarchs haven't been so important, and for almost a century there haven't been any, male or female, in Russia and Austria.

But Victoria, Wilhelmina, Elizabeth II, Juliana, Beatrix... since 1815 the UK and the Netherlands have had queens for longer than kings. (Plus Margrethe of Denmark, and probably others.)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jul-2005 at 09:43

Yes, there are and have been reigning women, but the short list was of ruling women.

Since the Fr. Rev., it has been a boy's club only.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jul-2005 at 13:21

Queen Margaret of Denmark--ruled during the 14th Century. 

Mord

errr...left turn at vinland?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jul-2005 at 13:53
Originally posted by mord mord wrote:

Queen Margaret of Denmark--ruled during the 14th Century. 

Mord

Well I meant the present one, but you're correct (as far as I know)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jul-2005 at 14:01
Originally posted by pikeshot1600 pikeshot1600 wrote:

Yes, there are and have been reigning women, but the short list was of ruling women.

Since the Fr. Rev., it has been a boy's club only.

Since the French revolution there haven't meen many ruling monarchs of either sex.

As for ruling women since then - Indira Gandhi, Margaret Thatcher, Golda Meir, Mrs Bandaranaike,  Benazir Bhutto... all in the last 50 years. All made bigger impressions than most male leaders of their country.

In fact, if you asked anyone not actually from India, Ceylon, the UK, Israel, and Pakistan what non-current prime ministers of those countries they could name, I bet the women would be included.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jul-2005 at 14:11
Oh, sorry....I was thinking only of ruling monarchs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Morgoth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2005 at 07:00

Quote We have none. It is strange that such a liberal and open minded country as Australia has had no real female in power (unless you include the almost totally ceremonial figureheads of Victoria and Elizabeth I).

However, Queen Elizabeth II is currently Australia's head of state.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Heraclius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2005 at 14:25

 Victoria may have given her name to an era, but what part did she actually play in the Empire? she was as much a figurehead as Elizabeth II is today, Victoria was the first real modern monarch in Britain, and doesnt deserve any credit for the Empires power and domination.

 However Victoria (unless im very much mistaken) ruled/been head of state over more people across the globe than any other woman in history, possible exception of the current queen not sure of the population of the Commonwealth.

A tomb now suffices him for whom the world was not enough.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bilge_Kagan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2005 at 17:09

Quote Anatolia known as the land of mothers... THe real history of Turkish flag is, it's taken from Byzantines when conquer Istanbul in 1453 and they took it from older Anatolians... Moon was the symbol of motherearth and star was the symbol of mothers of Anatolians... So Anatolians were also rulled by a lot of women... Also Amazones are from Anatolia...

Absolutely wrong. The flag which contains moon and star, has been made when " Abdulhamit II" was Padishah ( or abdulhamit I ). But you have to learn something about Moon and star. Today, moon and star symbolises " Islamic faith " but, there are some findings in " Kyrgyzistan " now. In these findings, there are " Gokturk coins " and these coins contains " moon and star " . So we can easily say that, moon and star, after the Turks became very important and strong in Islamic world, became Islam's symbol. I think, we didn't take anything from Byzantines except for Istanbul

 

Btw. You know, Turks are seperated in " boy "s. So every " boy " has its culture ( but these cultures nearly same... ). Some of these boys were allowing womans to became " Hatun " and rule. We know that, especially " Sibir "s and " Pecenek"s were allowing womans...( i can post smth. here but i can't translate it to English... )

 

Oh... by the way, Sorry for my bad english ....

Ey Turk budunu ! Sozumu işit ! Saglamca dinle ! Ustte Gok Basmasa. Altta Yer Delinmese Ilini Toreni Kim Bozabilir ? Titre ve Kendine gel !

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2005 at 15:09
Originally posted by Heraclius Heraclius wrote:

 Victoria may have given her name to an era, but what part did she actually play in the Empire? she was as much a figurehead as Elizabeth II is today, Victoria was the first real modern monarch in Britain, and doesnt deserve any credit for the Empires power and domination.

 However Victoria (unless im very much mistaken) ruled/been head of state over more people across the globe than any other woman in history, possible exception of the current queen not sure of the population of the Commonwealth.

Actually Victoria was the head of state of the most territories in history. I won't disregard her as simply a figurehead, she was a powerful anchor of dignity and respect which subjects around the world would readily devote their loyalty to. No small thing in a global empire of vastly differing peoples and cultures. Elizabeth II actually is not head of state for all the Commonwealth countries, the vast bulk have gained their own head of state since their independence. Currently Lizzy is head of state of only the UK, Australia, New Zealand and Jamaica.



Edited by Constantine XI
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aygucu Tonyukuk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2005 at 15:13
Originally posted by Bilge_Kagan Bilge_Kagan wrote:

Quote Anatolia known as the land of mothers... THe real history of Turkish flag is, it's taken from Byzantines when conquer Istanbul in 1453 and they took it from older Anatolians... Moon was the symbol of motherearth and star was the symbol of mothers of Anatolians... So Anatolians were also rulled by a lot of women... Also Amazones are from Anatolia...

Absolutely wrong. The flag which contains moon and star, has been made when " Abdulhamit II" was Padishah ( or abdulhamit I ). But you have to learn something about Moon and star. Today, moon and star symbolises " Islamic faith " but, there are some findings in " Kyrgyzistan " now. In these findings, there are " Gokturk coins " and these coins contains " moon and star " . So we can easily say that, moon and star, after the Turks became very important and strong in Islamic world, became Islam's symbol. I think, we didn't take anything from Byzantines except for Istanbul

 

Btw. You know, Turks are seperated in " boy "s. So every " boy " has its culture ( but these cultures nearly same... ). Some of these boys were allowing womans to became " Hatun " and rule. We know that, especially " Sibir "s and " Pecenek"s were allowing womans...( i can post smth. here but i can't translate it to English... )

 

Oh... by the way, Sorry for my bad english ....

Bilge Kagan Agha,
Sibir Katun was called "Tomris" and there is an epope about her.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Heraclius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2005 at 18:14

 Im not challenging Victorias contribution to the monarchy, its credibility, and reputation in that respect she was fantastic. However in terms of empire, she wasnt particularly involved, she was often simply a pawn in the Disraeli-Gladstone political war, Disraeli was often able to coax her into supporting yet more conquests and the expanding of the empire. The title of Empress of India for example.

 The empire builders are often overlooked due to the towering shadow of Victoria.

A tomb now suffices him for whom the world was not enough.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2005 at 20:45
Yes I don't dispute that, she wasn't the main decider of Imperial policy. More definitely a reinforcer of imperial policy than a planner or implementer of it.

Edited by Constantine XI
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