History Community ~ All Empires Homepage


This is the Archive on WORLD Historia, the old original forum.

 You cannot post here - you can only read.

 

Here is the link to the new forum:

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Forum LockedFaith and Humanity

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
SearchAndDestroy View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 15-Aug-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2733
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2008 at 13:53
Quote
The concept of "burial" is interesting in itself.
 
Why have we always had burial rights
Well hygiene was definitly one reason that Janusrook mentioned. But then we are human, and you only have to ask yourself really. If you took out the religious ideas in your mind, even spiritual ones, your still going to want to do something with the body of a family member or friend. Humans like the idea thatthe person we love is always comfortable, even in death, and we have the desire to still take care of them. It really goes against our conscience and emotions to leave someone we care about behind.
So it's a desire and want in burying our relatives that goes back atLEAST 40,000 and definitly further back. Over time it became a ritual, in either case it eases the mind knowing you didn't leave your your relative to the elements and animals.
 
And before anyone asks, "Well what about the sky burial?" because I know some people on this forum like to pull that sort of thing, it's obvious that it's a custom that came about through neccesity to do something with bodies. After all, it's just about comforting the mind more then anything.  
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
Back to Top
Voice of Reason View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 09-Jan-2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Voice of Reason Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2008 at 14:35
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy SearchAndDestroy wrote:

Do we know that all religions have a creator?
 
In the end, if there was a creator, would it matter what other religions though? I often find that people grade "God" on religions. Think about it, if there truly is a superior being, with superior intellect, then how could you grade that being on humans like us? Wouldn't we be getting it mostly wrong in the first place?
Einstein said, "God does not play dice." He was right. God plays Scrabble. - Philip Gold
Back to Top
Bulldog View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 17-May-2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2775
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2008 at 15:23
Quote Cezar
Then if I don't have faith I totally lack spirituality?
 
That's not for me to say, faith and spirituality are personal, I or anybody else can't dictate to you what you should or shouldn't believe, its a private matter.
 
Quote Cezar
First, what's that about humans creation? You think we were created?
 
Well we havn't always existed, at some point we were created.
 
Quote Cezar
 Then, what faith? Maybe you say that ancient people worshiped nature. Again I see it as a side result of conservation instinct. They were trying to avoid being harmed.
 
The creater created everything, so if nature created us its the work of the creater.  
 
 
 
      “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.”
Albert Pine

Back to Top
SearchAndDestroy View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 15-Aug-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2733
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2008 at 16:15
Quote In the end, if there was a creator, would it matter what other religions though
Thats not the point. In the end we won't have the answer as long as we live. What we can discuss is religion, because it maybe proven that it's nothing more then a invention. Speaking of a creator, there could be one, but there doesn't have to be a religion and thats what I'm getting at. If some religions don't have a creator or a being of superiority of the all ruling, then is not something we were born self-consciencious of, and thus religion would be invention. It would mean, religion was created for the unexplained and man has had no contact with an otherworldly being.
Quote Think about it, if there truly is a superior being, with superior intellect, then how could you grade that being on humans like us?
Exactly, so why do people choose to follow religion? Perhaps just comfort through spirituallity and hope?
Quote Wouldn't we be getting it mostly wrong in the first place?
I always question that, and thats why I asked.
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 06-Dec-2004
Location: Luxembourg
Status: Offline
Points: 7011
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jan-2008 at 14:12
 
Originally posted by Bulldog Bulldog wrote:

Quote Gcle
Those aren't the only two possibilities. There's reincarnation for a start. There's also Hades which is neither heaven nor hell nor extinction.
 
And there are many varieties of 'heaven'.
 
The concept of reincarnation includes heaven aswell, we reincarnate untill we reach a spiritual level high enough to enter as the Hindus call "Loka".
 
There are different interpretations of "heaven" but they share a common point which is being another world.
It would be better then to use the term 'other world'. 'Heaven' has many specific connotations, including being a pleasant place.
 
Actually I'd have no objection to saying there are two possibilities: "There is an afterlife" and "There is not an afterlife". Though you'd have to raise the question of whether there is a 'beforelife' or not.
 
 
Citizen of Ankh-Morpork
Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984.
Back to Top
Voice of Reason View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 09-Jan-2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Voice of Reason Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jan-2008 at 14:57
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy SearchAndDestroy wrote:

Quote In the end, if there was a creator, would it matter what other religions though
Thats not the point. In the end we won't have the answer as long as we live. What we can discuss is religion, because it maybe proven that it's nothing more then a invention. Speaking of a creator, there could be one, but there doesn't have to be a religion and thats what I'm getting at. If some religions don't have a creator or a being of superiority of the all ruling, then is not something we were born self-consciencious of, and thus religion would be invention. It would mean, religion was created for the unexplained and man has had no contact with an otherworldly being.
Quote Think about it, if there truly is a superior being, with superior intellect, then how could you grade that being on humans like us?
Exactly, so why do people choose to follow religion? Perhaps just comfort through spirituallity and hope?
Quote Wouldn't we be getting it mostly wrong in the first place?
I always question that, and thats why I asked.
 
Valid points, what i was trying to say, guess i should have just said it, was that we should grade it not on the religion intself, but the book that the religion follows. Such as the Bible, Koran, Torah, ect.. other spiritual books.
Einstein said, "God does not play dice." He was right. God plays Scrabble. - Philip Gold
Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 06-Dec-2004
Location: Luxembourg
Status: Offline
Points: 7011
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jan-2008 at 16:06
 
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy SearchAndDestroy wrote:

Speaking of a creator, there could be one, but there doesn't have to be a religion and thats what I'm getting at. If some religions don't have a creator or a being of superiority of the all ruling, then is not something we were born self-consciencious of, and thus religion would be invention.
Buddhism gets on very well with the idea of an eternal, uncreated, universe, and has no 'being of superiority of the all ruling'. Anybody can be a Buddha, given time and right thought, right living and so forth.
 
Many animist religions have no concept of a single creator, or of a creation for that matter.
 
In fact you'll have to look at animism to find the origins of religion since that's the oldest of all religious beliefs.
Citizen of Ankh-Morpork
Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984.
Back to Top
SearchAndDestroy View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 15-Aug-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2733
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jan-2008 at 16:10
Quote
Valid points, what i was trying to say, guess i should have just said it, was that we should grade it not on the religion intself, but the book that the religion follows. Such as the Bible, Koran, Torah, ect.. other spiritual books.
The books are the religion, without them, there wouldn't be a religion to follow. You could have preachers without a book, but then it would probably resemble the Celtic Religion where it ended up with 100s of gods, I believe upwards near a 1000 or more. There was no written book for the Druids and they conveyed the stories themselves, which obviously makes the religion unique in different areas.
But with the bible and other holy books, it creates consistency within a religion, something everyone looks to for answers. But even then the books change, so there's not much that is consistent in religion in my eyes. If it were 100% completely true and consistent, then there'd be one religious book and thus one religion; or atleast consistent one. Instead we have multiple religions and with each one multiple sects in them. So, how do you grade a book, when there isn't one that can be widely accepted as the true one? Do we grade the bible and koran against the Torah since it started the Abrahamic Branch?
To grade something, you need to find something to grade it against, otherwise it's pointless. All followers say their belief is true, so how do you find the one that is of a higher grade?
 
Maybe I'm not understanding what you are trying to say, but grading something to me means putting a rank or value that is higher or lower then others in a catagory. Usually you have something to measure up to, a medium I guess you can say. But we don't, atleast as far as I know.
Originally posted by gcle gcle wrote:

Buddhism gets on very well with the idea of an eternal, uncreated, universe, and has no 'being of superiority of the all ruling'. Anybody can be a Buddha, given time and right thought, right living and so forth.
 
Many animist religions have no concept of a single creator, or of a creation for that matter.
 
In fact you'll have to look at animism to find the origins of religion since that's the oldest of all religious beliefs.
Thanks for the info on Buddhism. I think that shows that humans aren't born with the idea of a supernatural being in mind, but is passed on by culture.
To this day many Shamans in central Asia still believe in animism and ancestral spirits from what I understand. Do these religions stretch back thousands of years before written religion? I was always curious about them in that regard. With written religion we have a good idea of the age they are, but with Shamanism and such, I never really see a age put on them.


Edited by SearchAndDestroy - 18-Jan-2008 at 16:17
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 06-Dec-2004
Location: Luxembourg
Status: Offline
Points: 7011
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jan-2008 at 16:41
 
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy SearchAndDestroy wrote:

Originally posted by gcle gcle wrote:

Buddhism gets on very well with the idea of an eternal, uncreated, universe, and has no 'being of superiority of the all ruling'. Anybody can be a Buddha, given time and right thought, right living and so forth.
 
Many animist religions have no concept of a single creator, or of a creation for that matter.
 
In fact you'll have to look at animism to find the origins of religion since that's the oldest of all religious beliefs.
Thanks for the info on Buddhism. I think that shows that humans aren't born with the idea of a supernatural being in mind, but is passed on by culture.
Buddhism does have supernatural beings (at least many branches of it). It just doesn't need a creator, and they're not seen as all-powerful. Depends a bit what you mean by supernatural beings or course - it's more like Christians or whatever also believing in fairies and elves.
Quote
To this day many Shamans in central Asia still believe in animism and ancestral spirits from what I understand. Do these religions stretch back thousands of years before written religion? I was always curious about them in that regard. With written religion we have a good idea of the age they are, but with Shamanism and such, I never really see a age put on them.
The information we have is I guess almost totally from anthropological studies of 'uncivilised' and pre-literate tribes, especially hunter-gatherer ones, which is why animism is seen as a precursor belief system. There are still pockets of such peoples in various parts of the world, including in Asia, Australia and Africa, and probably parts of the Americas. There are strong traces of animism in ancient Greek and Roman religious beliefs.
 
What is common is the belief that people, animals, and indeed plants and places have souls, and are to some degree at least conscious (and all should therefore be respected). Of course you can believe that and still believe the universe was created by something or someone, but it isn't necessary, and does seem to be a later development (as indeed is the concept of gods in general).
 
 
Citizen of Ankh-Morpork
Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.110 seconds.