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Forum Lockedeuropeans the first americans?

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Housecarl
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Post Options Post Options   Quote hiddenhistory Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: europeans the first americans?
    Posted: 27-May-2009 at 21:57
have seen two programmes on history channel first was on the remains of 2 white men found in texas that were 2000 years old. second was on a tribe from france who crossed to the states and colonised the west coast. could it be this tribe co-exsisted with , were assimilated by or killed by the indians as they came south from alaska
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2009 at 22:26
Answer: NOOOOO
"He who attempts to count the stars, not even knowing how to count the knots of the 'quipus'(counting string), ought to be held in derision."

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Post Options Post Options   Quote hiddenhistory Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2009 at 22:50
why not
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Post Options Post Options   Quote hiddenhistory Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2009 at 22:52
apparently this tribe brought with it techniques in spear making ch they shared with the indians they met which enabled the indians to kill the large predetors that lived there at the time, thus allowing them to move south
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Post Options Post Options   Quote hiddenhistory Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2009 at 23:04

conerning the two remains found in texas these were found on indian land and the indians therefore went to court obtained the remains and then destroyed them. i actually saw a third programme that showed the first people in south america came from australia and were killed by the indians when they moved south, im not indian bashing here as i love indian history and culture im just trying to find out parts of human history that might have been missed 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chookie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2009 at 23:11
Originally posted by hiddenhistory

have seen two programmes on history channel first was on the remains of 2 white men found in texas that were 2000 years old. second was on a tribe from france who crossed to the states and colonised the west coast.


This tribe from France would most likely have been the Solutrians, but they weren't from France. They existed around 30,000BC - France didn't.

On the other hand I've seen (can't remember where) references to Causcasoid skeletons in America which have been carbon dated to around 9,000BC (plus or minus 10%)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2009 at 23:35
Originally posted by hiddenhistory

why not


You can't swim in freezing seas. Besides, there is not a single archaeological evidence and not evidence of "euro genetics" in modern Amerindians, either

"He who attempts to count the stars, not even knowing how to count the knots of the 'quipus'(counting string), ought to be held in derision."

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Post Options Post Options   Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2009 at 07:17

All the discoveries of "Caucasian skeletons" in the Americas found so far have been shown to be false, although it hasn't stopped some fringe types from continuing the claim.

There has been a very long history of attempts to deny that the inhabitants of the Western Hemisphere could have produced the advanced civilizations they did by ascribing these things to the influence of European or Middle Eastern cultures. Lost tribes of Israel, Egyptians, Phoenicians, Celts, etc - anyone but Siberian migrants / native Americans. A local origin for these civilizations just isn't sexy enough for some, it seems.

The Solutrians are probably the most empirical of these claims. It's based on a style of flaked stone points that, in Eurasia, was unique to the Solutrian culture of western Europe (France) but shows similarity to Clovis stone points in the Americas. This is pretty thin evidence for any sort of contact, though. Isolated groups came up with similar techniques all the time. Ground edges on stone tools, for instance, were first developed by Australian aboriginals who were relatively isolated at the time - but it subsequently appears in scattered locations around the world, including, for instance, the Natufian culture of the Neolithic Levant (Israel/Palestine). I doubt it was colonized by Australian aboriginals!

The timeline for the Solutrian theory doesn't really work out all that well, either. The Solutrian culture in Europe existed from 21000 to 17000 years BP. It had disappeared entirely by 15000 years BP. The Clovis tools - the stone points in the Americas that resemble Solutrian points - hadn't started to be manufactured until about 13000 years BP, two thousand years after the Solutrians had disappeared and fully four thousand years since it had been the dominant style of stone flaking in the areas where it is found. Unless they spent a few thousand years in crossing over (maybe they froze on the way and thawed out on the other side!), it doesn't make much sense.



Edited by edgewaters - 28-May-2009 at 07:32
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Post Options Post Options   Quote hiddenhistory Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2009 at 11:19
its true you cant swim in frezzing seas, however the soulturans were considered the most in ventive tribe and at that time the ice packs would have been far enough south to enable then to cross in small boats that they possessed.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote hiddenhistory Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2009 at 11:25
perhaps the lack of evidence is due to the fact that finding small spear pionts from 15,000 years ago is difficult. it does not mean that they do or did not exsist. what about the viking remains in newfoundland. these could easily have been missed so how much harder to find a spear piont from 14,000 years earlier. have you seen the programme it also indicated dna evidence. im not a fantasy type person who believes in atlantis etc but i think this subject deserves attention
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Post Options Post Options   Quote hiddenhistory Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2009 at 11:28
no im sure the two skulls were 2000 years old  the remains of australian aboringines were much older. perhaps someone else has seen these programmes
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2009 at 14:17
I don't know what is the desperation of the Europeans to robb the heritage of Native Americans.
It is not enough the Louvre? Calculus? Bach music?
The motivation behind the Solutrian and other wild explanations by self proclaimed "experts" it is the same: awake the sense of awe of low educated people; sale a lot of books and racism.
These kind of europeans simple believe Amerindians are inferior and needed "masters" to teach them. They are of the same school of Heyerdhal and Hitler; still looking for the Ark of the Covenants.
"He who attempts to count the stars, not even knowing how to count the knots of the 'quipus'(counting string), ought to be held in derision."

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2009 at 14:49
Originally posted by edgewaters

The timeline for the Solutrian theory doesn't really work out all that well, either. The Solutrian culture in Europe existed from 21000 to 17000 years BP. It had disappeared entirely by 15000 years BP. The Clovis tools - the stone points in the Americas that resemble Solutrian points - hadn't started to be manufactured until about 13000 years BP, two thousand years after the Solutrians had disappeared and fully four thousand years since it had been the dominant style of stone flaking in the areas where it is found. Unless they spent a few thousand years in crossing over (maybe they froze on the way and thawed out on the other side!), it doesn't make much sense.

 
I think that is a good point. Anyway, we don't know what kind of technique the Siberian population, who was the Native Americans-to-be, used. Maybe they just had a similar technology/style, or maybe they were influenced by a similar style - although I find that hard to believe, considering the distances. Never the less, people wandered all the way from Africa to the Americas in the long term, so it's not impossible. I doubt we could even talk about "white people" at that time anyway.
 
Originally posted by hiddenhistory

have seen two programmes on history channel first was on the remains of 2 white men found in texas that were 2000 years old. second was on a tribe from france who crossed to the states and colonised the west coast. could it be this tribe co-exsisted with , were assimilated by or killed by the indians as they came south from alaska
 
You have to be more specific than that. What is the timeframe for the latter idea? I mean, it can't be 2000 years, because the Americas was completely populated by the present peoples long before that.


Edited by Jams - 28-May-2009 at 14:53
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Post Options Post Options   Quote hiddenhistory Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2009 at 16:43

im afraid you misunderstand my motivations in posting this subject. i have no desire to rob the native americans of their heritage, perhaps my title post is misleading. im sure the native americans landed in alaska first. All im saying is its possbile that other peoples may have come from other directions and this would be interesting if it was the case. anyway human history belongs to us all native american history belongs to me just as european history belongs to you. we are all human and have the right and duty to discover what our ancestors did with there lives. please stop looking at this as a rascist attack. instead it is a professional historical line of investigation. perhaps then we can make progress togethere

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