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Forum LockedEurope as it should be

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eaglecap View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jul-2008 at 23:35
Originally posted by Donasin Donasin wrote:

I wouldn't mind a North American Union. Although I doubt it would have ANY real power. Nationalists in the Us and Canada (not sure about Mexico) make it hard to have North American wide trade agreements or highways.Maybe if people still used the US as a union instead of a nation things would be easier.


Unless all north American wake up it will happen and concerning the EU it is all interconnected I believe. I still meet a lot of people who have never heard of the North American Union.

I hope you are right though!!

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/204

Are you sure you want a NAU??
http://www.augustreview.com/news_commentary/north_american_union/the_north_american_union_and_the_larger_plan_2007121884/

Let me read the previous posts so I can comment more on the EU.

Edited by eaglecap - 27-Jul-2008 at 23:41
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jul-2008 at 01:28
I think longshanks might be onto something? More of a trading block, than actual political organizing of the countries into some nation! Atleast, that's my impression of how plenty of Europeans would rather see it? Now their politicans OTOH... doesn't seem to be listening, or really care what it's people think? Kind of like alot of US politcians here...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donasin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jul-2008 at 05:34
(Sorry if this gets a little off topic, I get back to the EU at the end :) )

Actually I have been thinking of something very similar. Globalization and the free market is and will eventually destroy most nations economic independence. The economy, it can be augured, is the true basis for civilization, not culture or politics.

The Russian, French, and American revolutions all started during times of economic hardship. To prove this point how long was the enlightenment going on before the French or American Revolutions? How long was Marx preaching his message before Lenin? The protestant reformation has even been attributed to having economic origins. Ideals are not enough to sway the masses but promise of change in economic depressions are.

What I'm trying to get to with this is, that humanity (NA and Europe included) will not be unified by war or diplomacy but my, ironically enough, capitalism. As Globalization becomes more prominent national pride and borders will become less and less important. Furthermore with innovations such as the internet it takes only seconds for someone from India to talk to someone in Britain, a feat which, not to long ago, would take weeks.

I digress back to the topics at hand.
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As much as I fear a union run solely for the interests of big business, Mexico, USA, and Canada have too deep of a democratic pass to allow such a union to exist. However if the union is supported by big business and allows for representation of all North Americans I do not see how such a thing could hinder the continent.

The lack of public participation is what I feel people are truly against when it comes to the EU. If the Union was to act in a more republican manner than I feel support would be much more wide spread.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jul-2008 at 06:03
Originally posted by longshanks31 longshanks31 wrote:

The european union is better used as a trading block and nothing more, the mechanisms and offices of the european union more resemble that of the old soviet union than those of the united states.
I can only speak for britain but i suspect this extends to several member states, but we will probably end up leaving in time, and replacing it with simple free trade agreements, military integration is not something we want or need, and there is little value in joining the euro.
With respect to free trade, we are happy but thats as far as our interest extends.
When the conservatives next gain power, we will see the beginings of this.
We have different interests, things like the commonwealth and close working with our transatlantic cousins.
What are you Charles De Gualle?
It is true I think that the UK's relationship with the US and other Anglo-sphere nations will be at least as important as her relationship with Europe, more so really because its a shared culture, and history and language. The rest pf Europe OTH have each other as their most important partner.
 
 
A bigger question is how Europe will face the inevitable geo-political rise of E Asia. Japan in the first part of the last century was just a harbinger IMO. We have already seen the ecomomic rise and its a trusim one always follows the other.
 
Its interesting, a few years ago Lloyds of London showed some old records and some modern ones. Today you have ships bringing manufactured goods from the east and taking back luxary goods from the west. 250 years ago its was exactly the opposite.
 
The Germans also take vacations in Paris; especially during the periods they call "blitzkrieg".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote longshanks31 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jul-2008 at 10:58
sparten, as much as i hate to say it as ive never been his biggest fan, but de gaulle was spot on about britains entry into the EU, i think his views could be extended to a couple of scandinavian countries too.
The biggest problem with the rise of asia is that of energy, but the earth has the technology to deal with this, its up to the worlds leaders to get there arse in gear and figure it out.
If china winds up being a super power, which i think internal problems may prevent, i can think of much worse super powers from the past, our lot being one of the worst.
The chinese deserve a break and so do india, they are working hard to get it.
The chinese have actually developed a keen taste for british china plates, which is a little ironic.
If the centers of the earth shift it wont really matter, lets face it for the most of human recorded history, china and india were the first world and us the third.
I once read that europe and america will not get poorer but will not be so comparitivly rich, if all this leads less inequality and better lives then i say bravo.
As long as they keep growing and shipping us tea (which i have a huge love and addiction of) i will stay happy.
long live the king of bhutan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jul-2008 at 19:38
Originally posted by Maharbbal Maharbbal wrote:



I mean not only are Euro forces smaller but they are also less efficient (old material, less soldiers on the ground and more logistical personnel than the US army, etc.).



Your basic mistake here is that not all European forces can be put to the same basket. Population analogies and defense spending in analogy with the National Income vary quite a bit. There are countries with significant military power and defense spending, as those of Western Europe, and countries with lesser or non-significant military forces, such as the Benelux countries. Greece, though, has one of the highest defense spending in the entire continent, and one of the biggest, and very advanced in terms of latest technology, air fleets in the Eastern Mediterranean, behind Israel and Turkey.Plus, the tactical and strategical aims of every country vary greatly: Scandinavia ain't the Balkans and the Baltic sea is not the Mediterranean or the Aegean. Swedish coastal forces are one of the most advanced , while Germany has one of the most advanced armored divisions.  On the other hand , the British navy is capable for long range missions (nuclear ships and subs) while the Greek navy has a small but very formidable fleet, specialized in operating in small seas, such as the Aegean and the Ionian.

In other words, Europe  varies greatly in almost every sector, thus it is very difficult to compare it with the USA. It is not one State.


Edited by Spartakus - 30-Jul-2008 at 19:41
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