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Forum LockedDo Greeks looks like Persians?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote white knight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2007 at 01:07
I thought ancient greeks have blonde curly hairs and wide blue eyes while the persians have curly black hairs, deep set of eyes and parot bill like noses.  Both are caucasians of course.  

Edited by white knight - 13-Apr-2008 at 17:21
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote olvios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2007 at 02:55
blonde curly hairs and wide blue eyes- a rarity in ancient greece .the blondes and reds were the celts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote olvios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2007 at 03:13
In the iliad only menelaus and  Achilees  are blondes aside from gods. Also alexander  wasnt blode despite was modern movies like to tell us.  How come do people think they were mostly blonde? It was a rarity and common only in celts and the such.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote think Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2007 at 04:49
Leonidas im not sure what mean by a "harder" face, a picture would probably get the message across better rather than a word.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2007 at 04:51
Originally posted by white knight white knight wrote:

I thought ancient greeks have blonde curly hairs and wide blue eyes while the persians have curly black hairs, deep set of eyes and parot bill like noses.  Both are caucasians of course.  
 
Of course, you have Iranians who do look like that, but there are also Iranians with blond, red, brown hair and as well as Iranians who look like East Africans. 
 
However, if you look at the relief (?) of the battle of Issus, it was created less than 20 years after the event, the depictions of Persians and Greeks are identical; both look of med complexion and there are no blonds.
 


Edited by Zagros - 08-May-2007 at 04:52
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote olvios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2007 at 05:00
that whole blonde  majority of ancient seems to me a  modern "urban"  european myth about the past
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote think Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-May-2007 at 04:54
Originally posted by olvios olvios wrote:

that whole blonde  majority of ancient seems to me a  modern "urban"  european myth about the past


I dont think many actually believed that, it was writtem by some guy who perhaps took things too far.

Although whats funny is how you get Greeks from the Islands or the more southern region who will argue to no end that Greeks are no way light enough for them to have Blonde hair yet you do find them in Northern regions an they have more lighter skin tones.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omshanti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-May-2007 at 05:20
It is very interesting that quite often in the movies, Greeks are depicted as blonde nordic looking people and the Persians or Arabs etc... are always depicted as really dark, indian, African or suuth Asian looking people. In my opinion it is all stereo typical images that have nothing to do with reality, which always come with the words such as ''western'' ''European'' ''christian'' or ''eastern'' ''muslim'' 'Asian'' etc.... The point is, non of those words or concepts {that are used when stereotyping) were there 2500years ago and the Greeks and the Persians were simply two peoples who lived close by, and who were almost neighbours. Not to mention that so many invasions, migrations, mixing with other peoples happened after this especially to the Persians due to their geographical location.

Edited by omshanti - 10-May-2007 at 05:25
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Athanasios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-May-2007 at 09:35
An other point is that  the modern Greeks , especially those who live in northern Greece, are refugees from minor Asia and Pontus, who live here since 1922 or 1956. I can't really see why the northern Greeks should be considered as lighter skinned. You know, the major factor in Greece about skin colour, is the relationship with the sea. It is normal for those who live in islands to have a dark skin "heiritage".

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote think Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2007 at 01:49
Originally posted by Athanasios Athanasios wrote:

It is normal for those who live in islands to have a dark skin "heiritage".


Oh yeh of course.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2007 at 03:11
Surely,i do not look like a Persian.Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote think Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2007 at 01:54
Originally posted by Spartakus Spartakus wrote:

Surely,i do not look like a Persian.Tongue


wheres your pik ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2007 at 05:12
Originally posted by think think wrote:

Leonidas im not sure what mean by a "harder" face, a picture would probably get the message across better rather than a word.
im not sure which post your referring to
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dinakos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2007 at 21:07
Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

Originally posted by white knight white knight wrote:

I thought ancient greeks have blonde curly hairs and wide blue eyes while the persians have curly black hairs, deep set of eyes and parot bill like noses.  Both are caucasians of course.  
 
Of course, you have Iranians who do look like that, but there are also Iranians with blond, red, brown hair and as well as Iranians who look like East Africans. 
 
However, if you look at the relief (?) of the battle of Issus, it was created less than 20 years after the event, the depictions of Persians and Greeks are identical; both look of med complexion and there are no blonds.
 
 
To me Alexander in this depiction looks like some modern Epirote Greek males--broad-headed with a flat crown--Alpine. Al was half Epirote. Darius looks like a Middle-Easterner. To my knowledge, based on some anthropologist (Coon?), Alexander's type has been in northwest Greece for thousands of years.
 
I'm Greek, and I've seen few if any Greeks who look like, for example, the late Ayatollah Khomeini. I've seen pictures of non-Anatolian Turks who look Persian. I've not seen any Greeks who look like Ahmedinajad.
 
I can't speak for Persians, but to me Greeks on the whole look very Mediterranean and Alpine, just as the ancients were described by modern anthropologists. There are also some who look Middle-Eastern, but there are almost none who look Mongolish.
 
My family is from the middle of the Peloponnese. We are mixed. Some are blonds, very blond for Greeks, some are slender-faced and Mediterranean-looking and some look Middle-Eastern. My second cousin looks very Mediterranean/Greek--slender-faced with curly brown hair--very Italian looking. One of his uncles was red-haired and looked Celtish, while another uncle might have passed as some type of Slav and another uncle looks Turkish (very rare for Greeks). This is from the same family. We are possibly more mixed than other Greeks.
 
Any genetic connection between today's Greeks and Persians probably predated interaction between the two peoples during the Classical Age. Persians were quickly defeated by the Greeks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-May-2007 at 06:30
I meant identical in terms of complexion, I also do not think Greeks and Persians look alike. 
 
NB: Ahmadinezhad is not a good example of a Persian, neither are people who look Central Asian, if by that you mean they have East Asian features.
 
 
 
 
^These are Northerners.
 
 
^These guys are Southerners.
 
So just from that you can see the great variance among Iranians.
 
Quote Any genetic connection between today's Greeks and Persians probably predated interaction between the two peoples during the Classical Age. Persians were quickly defeated by the Greeks.
 
According to Sforza, there is a strong genetic connection.  But I think generally, Persians have a more slender bone structure and are taller than Greeks. btw: Ionian Greeks and others were ruled by Persians for centuries before the quick Greek victory which then saw a Greek occupation for several centuries that was kicked out by the Parthians.
 
 


Edited by Zagros - 16-May-2007 at 06:34
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-May-2007 at 07:06
I have lived for 6 months in Tehran, and as a Greek I can tell you that Iranians look very much like Greeks.
This is of course a very generic observation and I'm speaking in overall terms.
 
Strange thing: I was visiting an historical Armenian church in Shiraz (or was it Esfahan? - I don't remember now...) with a friend of mine. She's west-European/blond. Next to the church there's a small museum and when we went to pay for some souvenirs we bought, the cashier tried to guess our nationalities. He didn't manage to find my friend's but then he looked at me and said with confidence: "you're Greek" Quite impressing guess, I don't suppose they see many Greeks in these parts Thumbs%20Up


Edited by Yiannis - 16-May-2007 at 07:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dinakos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-May-2007 at 07:59

Ahmedinajad doesn't look Iranian? How would he be classified? In Chicago there are more people of Arabic and Assyrian descent, to my knowledge, than Iranians. If he doesn't look Iranian, then I misclassified him. To me he looks like a Middle Eastern version of George W. Bush--same narrow eye slits and narrow-set eyes.

How would Ahmedinajad be classified? Does he look more Afghani?


Edited by Dinakos - 16-May-2007 at 08:01
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omshanti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-May-2007 at 08:24
Originally posted by Dinakos Dinakos wrote:

I can't speak for Persians, but to me Greeks on the whole look very Mediterranean and Alpine, just as the ancients were described by modern anthropologists. There are also some who look Middle-Eastern, but there are almost none who look Mongolish.
Well, considering the heavy impact the Turkic migrations/Mongolian invasion had on Iran (although not as heavy as central Asia), it is not surprising at all to see Mongoloid elements/admixtures in today's Iranians (just like the Russians of today). However, they all happened after and much later than the time of the battle of Issus, which means you can leave the Mongoloid element out when discussing the ancient Iranians or Persians.

Regarding Ahmadinejad, He does look like George Bush. In fact so many people in Iran jokingly say that they are brothers separated at birth. In my opinion he is one of those Iranians with a (slight) Mongoloid element/admixture, which makes him look more Afghan or Central Asian.

Edited by omshanti - 16-May-2007 at 08:35
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-May-2007 at 14:00
There is a difference between Persian and Iranian btw, an Iranian can look anything from East African to Nordic blond.  There are about 20 different ethnic groups in Iran FYI.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-May-2007 at 14:13
I think Ahmadinezhad's ancestry most likely will trace back to Arab soldiers, they have descendants in Khorasan who still speak Arabic.
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