History Community ~ All Empires Homepage


This is the Archive on WORLD Historia, the old original forum.

 You cannot post here - you can only read.

 

Here is the link to the new forum:

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Forum LockedDo christian turks exists

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 6>
Author
Suevari View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 04-Mar-2006
Status: Offline
Points: 85
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suevari Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 07:07
Originally posted by Bulldog Bulldog wrote:

Suevari
Religion in Turkish society is decreasing in its role - thank GOD!
 
There is nothing wrong with religion in society, its actually beneficial and important for emphasis on community, morals, family, helping the poor and need and trying to refrain from going down the wrong path etc etc
 
Religion in Pollitics is what is wrong, it triviallises and abuses religion for personal power.
 
The Grey Wolf salute looks cool Tongue I also heard that the Baskurtistan Turks use the Wolf Totem and salute?

Hey, i didn not say it beingin society is wrong, i said its ROLE in society in decreasing - meaning i like seeing it becoming less of a guidliene to abide by.

Religion in politics is always stoked by apopulation depending on how much religion is a part of their lives, the two are related.  DO you really think that a pious populace would be content with a secular government?  not exactly.. Therefore it's good that the manout of people relant on religion to function daily are decreasing.

Grey wolf symbol IS cool yeah, i on;y said i am disappointed it's been hijacked by rightists.

You need to read posts better.
www.passport.panda.org
SIGN UP TO PARTICIPATE IN NATURAL PRESERVATION
Back to Top
Bulldog View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 17-May-2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2775
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 07:57
DO you really think that a pious populace would be content with a secular government?.
 

Ofcourse, why not? if a government allows freedom of religion, allows religion to be practiced, helps the institutions, centres of religous learning, religous celebrations etc etc why would the populace have a problem. Infact according to the religion if all aspects of being able to live in accordance to the guidelines of the Holy Kur'an are in place then the government is in appliance with the religion anyway. In other words there is no need for a change in the ruling system as altough the state doesn't mix religion with pollitics its not a "jacobite secularist state" and is instead a religously tolerant and accepting yet at the same time non-theist state.
 
If you read more into this great religion you will see the logic in it, don't let extremists and biggots as you say "Yobaz" Wink put you off or let you be decieved into thinking they represent religion.
 
Grey wolf symbol IS cool yeah, i on;y said i am disappointed it's been hijacked by rightists
 
There is nothing stopping everyone from using it, its an old Turkic custom, you cannot blame rightists who actually go around the Turk world, research and study their history, customs, traditions and go to meet their people. If they hadn't of started reviving these traditions they may have been lost alltogether. After a while there will be a movement to bring these kinds of things back into the mainstream, the important part is that these traditions are not dead and have been saved wether you agree with them or not by those orientated more to the right.
 
 
 
 
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine

Back to Top
Nestorian View Drop Down
Pretorian
Pretorian
Avatar

Joined: 08-Jul-2006
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 161
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nestorian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2006 at 02:30
I think any conversions of Turks to Christianity would be offensive in Turkey wouldn't it? Not so much from a religious point of view, but from an identity point of view. Would it seem as a betrayal to one's heritage?
 
I've noted that conversions take place when a Turk is isolated from their main societal group, but it really shouldn't be that surprising anyway because of the lack of peer pressure of societal expectations. Wu'er Kaixi, a Chinese dissident of Uighur ethnicity is one of the lesser known converts to Christianity in America.
Back to Top
Suevari View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 04-Mar-2006
Status: Offline
Points: 85
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suevari Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2006 at 04:29
Bulldog, The 'pious' population here voted in a government that has continuously questioned the secular policies of the state and the population STILL supports them as a majority.

I know all religion has the capacity to be great, but from my personal experience and from looking at history I do not want a thing that causes so much hate, war and arrogant narrow mindedness being prevelent in the mindsets of my people as an ever-simmering platform for extremism to launch off.  I can perfectly distinguish the quietly faithful and the religious fundamentalist, but that does not stop me from supporting the growth of logic and scientific reason replacing religion as the main guide to life amongst the masses.
My grandfather is the perfect example of the ideal relationship between religion ond secular, scientific progression, he prays once a week in a private room and does not talk to anyone about his religion unless asked - he is modern, progressive, secular and open-minded.  But ordinary people who can live with the 2 things well are rare.

As for the wolf symbol, I know there is nothing stopping me using it dammit, i do!  What's your problem?  I AM blaming it on the rightists for giving it fascist connotations.


Edited by Suevari - 23-Jul-2006 at 04:31
www.passport.panda.org
SIGN UP TO PARTICIPATE IN NATURAL PRESERVATION
Back to Top
Bulldog View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 17-May-2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2775
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2006 at 08:11
Bulldog, The 'pious' population here voted in a government that has continuously questioned the secular policies of the state and the population STILL supports them as a majority.
 
This is called Democracy but also maybe a problem in the voting system the government didn't exactly get a real majority vote did it Wink, if the government solved the issues it was voted in for it wouldn't be needed anymore, why do you think it doesn't change the main things it was voted in for? if it did, it would loose votes as it would have no purpose anymore.
 
Also blaming this all on the people is totally wrong, the more secular governments have all screwed up, when one system doesn't work people will try another one, if this one doesn't work they will again try a different one. Instead of blaming the people its better that the ideologies and pollitics be questioned.
 
I know all religion has the capacity to be great, but from my personal experience and from looking at history I do not want a thing that causes so much hate, war and arrogant narrow mindedness
 
This is not religions fault but people who use and abuse it for their own personal power. Communism has killed more than any religion and its athiest. It shows that stopping religion altogether doesn't work either infact it causes more death and war.
 
I can perfectly distinguish the quietly faithful and the religious fundamentalist, but that does not stop me from supporting the growth of logic and scientific reason replacing religion as the main guide to life amongst the masses.
 
Islam encourages logic and scientific reason. people do.
 


 
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine

Back to Top
Suevari View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 04-Mar-2006
Status: Offline
Points: 85
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suevari Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2006 at 08:32
I knwo it's democracy but this is just my opinion, stop relentlessly telling me im wrong.

As for religon.. I am well aware it's not religion fault - which is why i said it has the capacity to be great because it was designed with peace in mind etc.  But the fact that most of the time it is abused does not dimish the fact that religion has acted as a platform for "hate, war and arrogant narrow mindedness"

Again, yes Islam encourages all those things like all religions - but the reality is often different so again it does not detract from the reality that religion is acting as a platf
orm for insularity etc despite it's forward looking attitude on paper.
www.passport.panda.org
SIGN UP TO PARTICIPATE IN NATURAL PRESERVATION
Back to Top
Nestorian View Drop Down
Pretorian
Pretorian
Avatar

Joined: 08-Jul-2006
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 161
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nestorian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2006 at 10:57
Distortion of religion is the cause of conflict methinks
Back to Top
Pacifist View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary
Avatar

Joined: 15-Apr-2006
Status: Offline
Points: 84
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacifist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2006 at 22:46
Originally posted by Suevari Suevari wrote:


Most Christians in Turkey are Greeks, Armenians etc, but there is an increase in conversion among Turks.

Religion in Turkish society is decreasing in its role - thank GOD!
Is that really the case? Are there official reports, or are you saying this from your own observations? And is religion declining in Istanbul or also in smaller towns across Turkey?

Edited by Pacifist - 23-Jul-2006 at 22:47


Back to Top
Pacifist View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary
Avatar

Joined: 15-Apr-2006
Status: Offline
Points: 84
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacifist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2006 at 22:51
Originally posted by Feanor Feanor wrote:

Modern missionary activities are incredibly overrated and probably have no effect at all.
You know what I find absurd? Secular people/kemalists are equally suspicious or afraid of Christian minorities/non-Muslims, as Islamists... it's a contradiction to their own beliefs. 

Edited by Pacifist - 23-Jul-2006 at 22:56


Back to Top
Suevari View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 04-Mar-2006
Status: Offline
Points: 85
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suevari Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2006 at 05:56
Originally posted by Pacifist Pacifist wrote:

Originally posted by Suevari Suevari wrote:


Most Christians in Turkey are Greeks, Armenians etc, but there is an increase in conversion among Turks.

Religion in Turkish society is decreasing in its role - thank GOD!
Is that really the case? Are there official reports, or are you saying this from your own observations? And is religion declining in Istanbul or also in smaller towns across Turkey?

Ok, don't misunderstand what i said.  I didn't say "religion is decreasing" I said it's role as a rule of life is decreasing - in other words it's place as a key thing that guides people in their life is not as prevelent.  I say this because I see and know many middle-class people who are living their lives without continued reference to religion, comparable to how religious the average Englishman is.  I say again, the kind of peasant mentality where religion no.1 thing in their lives is on the decrease and it is making society more pluralised.
www.passport.panda.org
SIGN UP TO PARTICIPATE IN NATURAL PRESERVATION
Back to Top
Nestorian View Drop Down
Pretorian
Pretorian
Avatar

Joined: 08-Jul-2006
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 161
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nestorian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2006 at 06:16

To Pacifist, I applaud ur banner!

You represent the kind of forward thinking that most Arab states lack. Lack of recognition and lack of acceptance of reality of Israel's right to exist is the cause of Arab-Israeli conflict.

A lamb kebab for you!!
Back to Top
Bulldog View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 17-May-2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2775
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2006 at 07:32
Pacifist
You know what I find absurd? Secular people/kemalists are equally suspicious or afraid of Christian minorities/non-Muslims, as Islamists... it's a contradiction to their own beliefs.
 
You know what I find absurd? Why everyone had to be categorized and put into boxes, just because a person holds a view regarding a certain matter a label is attached to them. This is just divisive, isolotory and excluding. Why must people be one or the other? cannot one be religous yet also an admirer of AtaTurk, cannot one agree with AtaTurk and at the same time follow Islam. I know religous people in Turkey who not only respect AtaTurk but say that the leader actually did alot for the countries muslims and in-contrast to the theory that it was restricted they say it was promoted and the deviants trying to use it for its power were banished. The religion was allowed to return to its roots.
 
For example, AtaTurk printed the Holy Kor'an in Turkish and distributed it around the country for free along with all other Islamic knowledge. This was the first time that the average or working class Turk had a chance to really understand their religion in their own language. There are those who complain that prayers were read in Turkish and so was the Ezan. Islam encourages people to understand the religion in their own languages, its a shame some people have these hang-ups and think it is only for Arabs as if Arabic is a holy language.
 
Maybe you could read the below and translate some of it, my friend translated it all into English and I was amazed at two things, One is the amount of lies I was told about AtaTurk like that he banned religion alltogether, totally disregarded and hated it etc etc and Also that he studied Islam, appreciated its importance in society and encouraged that is was understood in its true form by the masses and not understood by just the elite and taught in a corrupted way to the masses.
 
I was very impressed Thumbs Up
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine

Back to Top
HelmutKohl View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 14-Jan-2007
Status: Offline
Points: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HelmutKohl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jan-2007 at 07:26
many Yakuts are Orthodox Christians.  some Khakass and Altayans too, but not the extent like the Yakuts.
Back to Top
Mortaza View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar

Joined: 21-Jul-2005
Location: Turkey
Status: Offline
Points: 3705
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jan-2007 at 07:38
Pacifist
You know what I find absurd? Secular people/kemalists are equally suspicious or afraid of Christian minorities/non-Muslims, as Islamists... it's a contradiction to their own beliefs.
 
Infact I find absurd that kemalist are more suspicious from christian minorities. Just compare akp and state(army and other state organizatıons). AKP is absolutely more liberal.
Back to Top
Mordoth View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 21-Sep-2006
Location: Turkey
Status: Offline
Points: 192
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mordoth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Mar-2007 at 22:52
We - the Kemalists - are afraid of minorities ?
 
They could not even burn a fire of their own if there is no Turks next to them :)
 
Ridiculous statement .
 
- Yes , Magyars and Finnish people are Christian Hunnic brothers of ours .
 
Finnic Tartars are still living in Finland .
Gagauz ( Gokoguz ) people still live in Moldovo - Romania .
And they are Christianized .
There are also Judaist Turks ,living next to Caspian Sea .
If Electricity Comes from Electrons ; does Morality come from Morons :|
Back to Top
erkut View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar
Persona non Grata

Joined: 18-Feb-2006
Location: Cyprus
Status: Offline
Points: 923
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote erkut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2007 at 03:05
And dont forget Karamani 's guys. They were the Christian Turks of  Anatolia untill 1920s. All of them living in Greece now.
DÜŞÜNÜYORUM O HALDE VURUN !
Back to Top
karajoz View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 29-Mar-2007
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 28
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote karajoz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2007 at 03:26
i just want to bring forward that the christian minority in turkey stabed us in the back once,so no one can missjudge if we are a bit sceptic about armenians and other christ in the modern state of turkey
 
 
just to remind,if someone doesent know the history of turkey.
the armenians killed turks and claimed our land,after they saw ottomans losing the war,they hoped of help with russia back then.
 
kurdish and turkish corps could defiet them afterwards succesfully.
 
Star
Back to Top
Mortaza View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar

Joined: 21-Jul-2005
Location: Turkey
Status: Offline
Points: 3705
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2007 at 03:26
They could not even burn a fire of their own if there is no Turks next to them :)
 
Be serious, they still cannot open their churchs.
Back to Top
karajoz View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 29-Mar-2007
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 28
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote karajoz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2007 at 03:31
 
 
 
its okey, i lived in switzerland all my live, turks cant open their own mosqus there either...so ... me personally... i dont want to see any churches in my country. this is turkey.
if you want go to a church go to greece or armenia...
Back to Top
Aelfgifu View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar

Joined: 25-Jun-2006
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 3391
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2007 at 09:35
Originally posted by karajoz karajoz wrote:

 
 
 
its okey, i lived in switzerland all my live, turks cant open their own mosqus there either...so ... me personally... i dont want to see any churches in my country. this is turkey.
if you want go to a church go to greece or armenia...
 
So you believe that only the majority of a certain religion in a country is allowed to worship? As far as I know, Turkey is a secular state... But a state that only allows one religion is not very secular at all, is it...
 
Many churches in Turkey are older than the mosques... Are you suggesting these ancient buildings should be torn down because you do not like christians? Dont know about Switzerland, but in many countries churches and mosques are allowed side by side. Even in muslim states like Pakistan churches are allowed freely... why should the secular state of Turkey not allow them?


Edited by Aelfgifu - 29-Mar-2007 at 09:36

Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 6>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.094 seconds.