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Forum LockedDelara was excuted today because of her love!

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Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Delara was excuted today because of her love!
    Posted: 02-May-2009 at 13:22
According to Iran Newspaper: http://www.iran-newspaper.com/1388/2/12/Iran/4199/Page/22/Iran_4199_22.pdf however all evidences show her boyfriend killed one of her relatives but because she herself confessed to the murder when she was 17 and said her boyfriend had no role, today she was hanged!
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2009 at 09:22
Horrible.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2009 at 09:47
In principle I support the death penalty for murder, but my impression of this case is that the girl sacrificed herself to cover for her boyfriend. Admirable as that is, the police and courts shouldn't be "fooled" by a 17 year old girl.
Hwæt! wē Gār-Dena in geār-dagum,
þeod-cyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2009 at 13:35
because of her love? did she kill somebody because of her love too?
 
By the way, which evidence show his boyfriend is guilty? and why did state ignored this evidence and they prefered to such weak evidence "confession."
 
Maybe we should built a court to judge iranian court?
 
 
 
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Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2009 at 14:31
You can read the story here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delara_Darabi
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2009 at 15:47
however all evidences show her boyfriend killed one of her relatives
 
I do not see any evidences that show her boyfriend is guilty..
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-May-2009 at 23:48
The death sentence for murder, rape and paedophelia is acceptable so long as guilt can be proven far beyond reasonable doubt (not narrow guilt verdicts), where evidence is compelling and conclusive.  

A confession without evidence is not enough; there is not sufficient evidence to prove her guilt.

Anyone with even a nominal familiarity with the judicial system in Iran and Sharia more generally, particularly in provincial areas, will know that proof beyond reasonable doubt is positively medieval in nature - hear'say can potentially get you hanged. "Holy" men should never be judges.


Edited by Zagros - 07-May-2009 at 23:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zaitsev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2009 at 01:27
While I don't want to get into an argument about the death penalty, this is a key reason why I am against it, ignoring moral objections. Often enough cases are decided based on evidence that is not necessarily 100% conclusive. Regularly people sentenced to life imprisonment are found later to have been innocent, but, obviously, no such inquest explores whether the already executed could have fallen foul to the same fate.
Straw Man - a weak or sham argument
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-May-2009 at 10:45
She killed a man; a close reltive. It was pre-planned and she showed no remorse from the looks of it. Next case please.
 
 
 
There are cases to get upset over the Iranian judicial system. This is not one of them.
The Germans also take vacations in Paris; especially during the periods they call "blitzkrieg".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-May-2009 at 10:46
She killed a man; a close reltive. It was pre-planned and she showed no remorse from the looks of it. Next case please.
 
 
 
There are cases to get upset over the Iranian judicial system. This is not one of them.
The Germans also take vacations in Paris; especially during the periods they call "blitzkrieg".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-May-2009 at 12:43
Everyone seems to have made valid points on this, all I can say is that I disapprove of the death penalty from my very gut. Even if she were guilty for a crime she committed at 17 (And in my eyes 17 makes her a child, and thus excuses her from the death penalty) hanging another human being is such a barbrous end to a human life. It is an evil on those who perpetuate it and on those who are its victims.
"Neither apathy nor antipathy can ever bring out the truth of history" Eoin Mac Neill.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-May-2009 at 12:55
^
And yet you don't seem to find murder barbrous.  She is/was a murderess. She was 17 at the time of the action, she was not a child (in a country where the age of majority is 15). She knew what she was doing was wrong. She planned it out. Maybe she was blinded by love, but that is not an excuse. I dislike quite a few of my reletives and I have managed not to kill them yet.
The Germans also take vacations in Paris; especially during the periods they call "blitzkrieg".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-May-2009 at 20:22
Of course murder is barbrous. Thats a dishonest debating line to go down.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2009 at 09:05
I see very little difference between life imprisonment and the death penalty, I don't think either is more inhumane, or that either is a better punishment. I have no real objections to a country that choose one over another.

When I've had this debate in the past it always seem to depend apriori on the death penalty being worse than life imprisonment (...therefore since they seem to have the same effect why not go for life imprisonment?). No one has ever explained to me why the death penalty is so bad, nor where this moral appears to have come from, or why my generations morals are supposed to be so much better than my grandparents or great-grandparents morals.

...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2009 at 13:45
Didn't realise, Morteza and Sparten, that you boys had access to the case files.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2009 at 15:47
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

I see very little difference between life imprisonment and the death penalty, I don't think either is more inhumane, or that either is a better punishment. I have no real objections to a country that choose one over another.

When I've had this debate in the past it always seem to depend apriori on the death penalty being worse than life imprisonment (...therefore since they seem to have the same effect why not go for life imprisonment?). No one has ever explained to me why the death penalty is so bad, nor where this moral appears to have come from, or why my generations morals are supposed to be so much better than my grandparents or great-grandparents morals.

...

(So Parnell if you want have a shot be my guest )


I could quote some learned authority or whatever, but thats just pointless. A stand against the death penalty is ultimately a stand of personal morality.

Where I disagree with the death penalty on the most fundamental grounds is A) The moral vacuousness of a political entity that has a legal right to take someone's life away (War and supression of rebellion being altogether more different matters - extraordinary measures you might say) and B) the chances of getting it wrong. The possibility that twenty or thirty or forty years into the future some evidence would arise which would clear someone's name is of paramount importance. There are several dozen examples in the US in particular where people had been wrongfully executed when fresh evidence arose later which cleared their name. To me, thats the greatest single act of injustice that can possibly happen in a liberal democratic society.

There is also the issue of prejudice due to someone's race, religion, sexual disposition etc. leading to jury bias, resulting in them receiving the death penalty when a white person possibly committing the same crime gets away with a life sentance. Plenty of cases of that too.

And no, I'm not going into the dark world of the internet to dig up case studies. But they are only one google search away if your interested...
"Neither apathy nor antipathy can ever bring out the truth of history" Eoin Mac Neill.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2009 at 22:39
Didn't realise, Morteza and Sparten, that you boys had access to the case files.
 
Let trust judge. She already confessed. You cannot accuse a court without any evidence. I am sure confession is not enough for you but in reality, It is enough for all courts when probability of making crime is high.
 
We should not accuse court for the sake of accusing court. Give me a good reason except there is not evidence tale. She entered house for steal and a woman murdered and she confessed. I am sure every courts will decide that she is guilty and this barbarity have no relation with "love"
 
 
) The moral vacuousness of a political entity that has a legal right to take someone's life away (War and supression of rebellion being altogether more different matters - extraordinary measures you might say) and
 
Infact killing at a war is more unjust.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2009 at 14:47
A confession in and by itself has no weight in any meaningful legal system. 

And the legal system in Iran is a joke. 

There has been no mention of any corroborating evidence to support the confession she is alleged to have made.

And it is NOT unusual for naive people to take the blame for an offence for someone on the basis of love or blackmail.  17 year olds are extremely naive.

I am not blaming the court for the sake of blaming the court. If she is guilty, she deserves what she got - a life for a life - that is justice.  The question is whether she was guilty or not -------- a 14 year old confession from a 17 year old girl is not enough by its self.  If she killed this man with a hammer then there should be a lot more evidence but we have not heard of any more beyond this alleged confession.




 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sun Tzu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2009 at 02:07
If someone broke in my house and killed one of my family members, I would kill them. When a country gets into a habit of killing one of its own people (The very people who put their leaders in power to protect them!!!) the govt. is corrupt and it is not protecting its people. When a country gets in the business of killing its own where does it stop???? Religion should never have any place in politics or justice. Religion should only reside in the hearts and minds of its adherents; (seperation of church and sate).

Adolf Hitler is a prime example- 6,000,000


Edited by Sun Tzu - 15-May-2009 at 02:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2009 at 06:23

Originally posted by Sun Tzu Sun Tzu wrote:

Adolf Hitler is a prime example- 6,000,000

A prime example of what? Of being a 'bad guy' just like the Iranis? Can't let these 'bad guys' run around, they might 6,000,000 us any day.
Nazi Germany was a secular state, not that secularism or not has anything to do with a good judiciary or this case. Would you believe that bad court decisions can be made regardless of ones position on secularism?
Quote Religion should never have any place in politics or justice. Religion should only reside in the hearts and minds of its adherents; (seperation of church and sate).

Religion is justice, and politics should play no part in either. Unjust rulings are for all effective purposes an act of heresy and disbelief as far as I am concerned.

Not that you have any right to critise Iran for being in the habit of killing its own people when your country does exactly the same! [Death Penalty] Unless of course you are saying that the US govt "is corrupt and it is not protecting its people" as well.

Not that I am saying that this ruling was unjust or bad, because I know squat diddly about it and have no information on which to make a judgement (no pun intended, but much welcomed)

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