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Forum LockedDefine XIA侠 & their orgins

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Kent Aoshima View Drop Down
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    Posted: 18-May-2009 at 05:08
In Europe they are known as Knight & paladins, In Japan they are known as Samuria. In China they are known as accroding to the english translation as Knight errant but to most of the people, they are commonly & typically known as Swordsman. In Chinese We call them as XIA侠!

They are always so legendary & mysterious in stories they we commonly know of.

With regards to these XIA侠 or so called Knight errant , how to define them & how or what are the things that we can compare with them, with regards to the Europeans Knights/Paladins & Japanese Samuria?

What is the History & origins to them?
Is it true that these XIA侠 or so called Knight errant evolved out from mohism of Mo Zi school of philisophy during the school of hundered thoughts of the warring state period?

What is the difference between the following:
1 ) 侠士
2 ) 游侠
3 ) 剑侠
4 ) 剑客
5 ) 侠客

What are the Codes & enthics of these XIA侠 or so called Knight errant & does it has any difference with the european knights/paladins or Japanese Samurias?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote King John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2009 at 05:19
The official language of this site is English, please provide translations for anything that is not in English like your numbers 1-5.
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Kent Aoshima View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kent Aoshima Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2009 at 05:29
You can Ignore 1-5 since you can read it. I don't know how to accurately translate  1-5.
 
You can just concentrate on XIA侠, knowing that the english translation is called as Chinese Knight Errants. Although they are Chinese Knights, they are different from the knights of Europe & the Knights of Japan which is called as Samurias.
 
very typically & commonly these XIA侠 are known to be as swordsman as most them carrys a sword as weapon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowybeagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2009 at 17:59
Originally posted by Kent Aoshima Kent Aoshima wrote:

With regards to these XIA侠 or so called Knight errant , how to define them & how or what are the things that we can compare with them, with regards to the Europeans Knights/Paladins & Japanese Samuria?
What is the History & origins to them?
Not comparable in many ways.
 
First, the Xia are practically never accepted as part of the legitimate social structure, and hence did not have a social status like the European knights or Japanese Samurai.
 
Knights and samurais were vassals or servants to a lord and earn a stipend.
The Xia were not, though a few did possess skills, wits and courage enough to be sought out by patrons for specific tasks.
 
In general, the Xia referred to those who lived outside the conventional social structure, preferring to settle their problems with their own pugilistic skills rather than through the authorities.
 
The earliest mention of the term referred to the pre-Qin era, where almost everyone were classified into one of the following professions:
(1) Aristocracy/Royalty - the rulers, not really considered a profession
(2) Shi - the scholar-knight-gentleman, employed in the court in civil and martial roles.
(2) Craftsmen
(3) Farmer
(4) Merchant
 
The Xia did not belong to any of the above.
To survive, they either took on various odd jobs or sponged off others.
In this aspect, they could be compared to the Japanese ronins.

Though the authorities and philosophers like Mencius generally disdained them, the Xia were tolerated because they occassionally served from useful functions.
 
(1) in times of war, they could form a pool of men with actual fighting abilities much better than conscripts.
(2) they sometimes act in policing roles in rougher parts of towns.  In pre-Qin era, bureaucracy was not as extensive and served mainly the needs of the ruling elite.
 
There're various origins to the Xia, but in general, they were either scions of noble families which had fallen on hard times, or became disillussioned.  Others could be commoners who were conscripted into the army, became good at fighting, saw a bit of the world and gained a bit of learning and could not readjust to their former civilian roles (peasants) upon demobilisation.
 
With all the wars going on between states and inter-clan rivalries, there were no shortage of men from upper class finding themselves losing their former prestigious status.  With their learnings, some found new roles, using their education to work in the courts as functionaries, with a chance to regain their former status if they scored some merits.  Others though allow themselves to fall further and further down the social ladder.
 
In general, the xia did not believe in the existing social order, did not believe in innate superiority due to social background, and that the rulers ruled not by merit nor virtue nor divine right but by might.  They did not want to be part of the structure to serve those in the upper class.
 
They did seek to enjoy life where possible, but would and could only do so if they had patronage of someone who won their respect.
 
Originally posted by Kent Aoshima Kent Aoshima wrote:

Is it true that these XIA侠 or so called Knight errant evolved out from mohism of Mo Zi school of philisophy during the school of hundered thoughts of the warring state period?
Mohism did influence the shaping of xia, but xia did not originate from Mohism.


Originally posted by Kent Aoshima Kent Aoshima wrote:

What is the difference between the following:
1 ) 侠士
Xia Shi - This referred to those who upheld justice and righteousness through their skills.
The earliest mention of the term was noted in History of Jin.
 
Originally posted by Kent Aoshima Kent Aoshima wrote:

2 ) 游侠
You Xia - An itinerant xia
 
Originally posted by Kent Aoshima Kent Aoshima wrote:

3 ) 剑侠
Jian Xia - A xia whose primary weapon is the sword.

Originally posted by Kent Aoshima Kent Aoshima wrote:

4 ) 剑客
Jian Ke - A swordsman
 
Originally posted by Kent Aoshima Kent Aoshima wrote:

5 ) 侠客
Xia Ke - Another generic term for xia.

Originally posted by Kent Aoshima Kent Aoshima wrote:

What are the Codes & enthics of these XIA侠 or so called Knight errant & does it has any difference with the european knights/paladins or Japanese Samurias?
No written code of ethics.
Just a few commonly expected traits:
(1) Emphasis on deeds over words.  It meant both being of few words and preferring action over words (talking, negotiating, compromising etc.)  This was mentioned in Shiji.
 
(2) To be undaunted by risks of injuries or death, or hopelessness of the situation, even to the extent of being Quixotic.
 
(3) Loyalty to those identified as friends.
 
(4) Keeping promises/words
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