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Forum LockedCyrus in Bible, was he a Christ??

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    Posted: 06-Mar-2006 at 08:12
I'm sure some peoples with some PAN ###### belief would lough to it,
Please b4 clicking on the post, & Shout for nonesense, read all post carefully.

It's facts what mentioned in Isaiah Book,

Please Read & Answer by open minds without any religious & Natinalism concepts.

I'm looking for your opinions

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Land of Aryan

@Azimuth: Thank you
 

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The Prophet Isaiah

Originally posted by <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaiah target=_blank>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaiah</a> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaiah wrote:

Isaiah or Yeshayáhu ( יְשַׁעְי 64;הוּ "Salvation of/is the Lord", Standard Hebrew Yəšaʿyáhu, Tiberian Hebrew Yəšaʿăyāhû, Greek Esaias) was the son of Amoz, and commonly considered the author of the Book of Isaiah. His ease of access to the king and other leaders (ref. Isa. 7:3; 8:2), taken with traditional sources which tell us that Isaiah was the cousin of Uzziah and therefore of royal lineage, suggests he was of a family of high rank.


The Prophet Isaiah, by Ugolino di Nerio

Originally posted by <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Isaiah target=_blank>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Isaiah</a> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Isaiah wrote:


Isaiah (Hebrew ישׁעיהו Yeshayahu or Yəša‘ăyāhû) is a book of the Jewish Hebrew Bible as well as the Christian Old Testament, containing prophecies attributed to Isaiah. This book is often seen by scholars as being divided into at least two sections. The first section, consisting of chapters 1-39, is generally accepted as being written by the prophet Isaiah of Jerusalem, or by his followers who took down his words. The second section, chapters 40-66, is of more debatable origin, as will be described further below.

Isaiah’s messages assume we know something of the rest of the Bible, particularly the earlier books of the Old Testament. He affirms that God is determined to take and keep a people for himself. Isaiah sees this as self-evident, seeing as God bothered with an unattractive bunch of slaves in Egypt, who incessantly grumbled while he was rescuing them. The descendents were no better - they were the thankless unfaithful men and women of Isaiah’s time. It is only the covenant love of God that explains it.

He also predicted Xerxes:

(37:14). According to the account in Kings (and its derivative account in Chronicles) the judgement of God now fell on the Assyrian army. "Like Xerxes in Greece, Sennacherib never recovered from the shock of the disaster in Judah. He made no more expeditions against either southern Palestine or Egypt."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Land of Aryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2006 at 08:33

Cyrus The Graet in Bible

Isaiah 45:1-8 (New International Version)

Isaiah 45

 1 "This is what the LORD says to his anointed,
       to Cyrus, whose right hand I take hold of
       to subdue nations before him
       and to strip kings of their armor,
       to open doors before him
       so that gates will not be shut:

 2 I will go before you
       and will level the mountains [a] ;
       I will break down gates of bronze
       and cut through bars of iron.

 3 I will give you the treasures of darkness,
       riches stored in secret places,
       so that you may know that I am the LORD,
       the God of Israel, who summons you by name.

 4 For the sake of Jacob my servant,
       of Israel my chosen,
       I summon you by name
       and bestow on you a title of honor,
       though you do not acknowledge me.

 5 I am the LORD, and there is no other;
       apart from me there is no God.
       I will strengthen you,
       though you have not acknowledged me,

 6 so that from the rising of the sun
       to the place of its setting
       men may know there is none besides me.
       I am the LORD, and there is no other.

 7 I form the light and create darkness,
       I bring prosperity and create disaster;
       I, the LORD, do all these things.

 8 "You heavens above, rain down righteousness;
       let the clouds shower it down.
       Let the earth open wide,
       let salvation spring up,
       let righteousness grow with it;
       I, the LORD, have created it.

Footnotes:

  1. Isaiah 45:2 Dead Sea Scrolls and Septuagint; the meaning of the word in the Masoretic Text is uncertain.

Ezra 1:1-11 (New International Version)

Ezra 1

Cyrus Helps the Exiles to Return
 1 In the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, in order to fulfill the word of the LORD spoken by Jeremiah, the LORD moved the heart of Cyrus king of Persia to make a proclamation throughout his realm and to put it in writing:

 2 "This is what Cyrus king of Persia says:
       " 'The LORD, the God of heaven, has given me all the kingdoms of the earth and he has appointed me to build a temple for him at Jerusalem in Judah. 3 Anyone of his people among you洋ay his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem in Judah and build the temple of the LORD, the God of Israel, the God who is in Jerusalem. 4 And the people of any place where survivors may now be living are to provide him with silver and gold, with goods and livestock, and with freewill offerings for the temple of God in Jerusalem.' "

 5 Then the family heads of Judah and Benjamin, and the priests and Levites容veryone whose heart God had moved用repared to go up and build the house of the LORD in Jerusalem. 6 All their neighbors assisted them with articles of silver and gold, with goods and livestock, and with valuable gifts, in addition to all the freewill offerings. 7 Moreover, King Cyrus brought out the articles belonging to the temple of the LORD, which Nebuchadnezzar had carried away from Jerusalem and had placed in the temple of his god. [a] 8 Cyrus king of Persia had them brought by Mithredath the treasurer, who counted them out to Sheshbazzar the prince of Judah.

 9 This was the inventory:
       gold dishes 30
       silver dishes 1,000
       silver pans [b] 29

 10 gold bowls 30
       matching silver bowls 410
       other articles 1,000

 11 In all, there were 5,400 articles of gold and of silver. Sheshbazzar brought all these along when the exiles came up from Babylon to Jerusalem.

Footnotes:

  1. Ezra 1:7 Or gods
  2. Ezra 1:9 The meaning of the Hebrew for this word is uncertain.

 Isaiah 45:13 (New International Version)
13 I will raise up Cyrus [a] in my righteousness:
       I will make all his ways straight.
       He will rebuild my city
       and set my exiles free,
       but not for a price or reward,
       says the LORD Almighty."

Ezra 3:7 (New International Version)
Rebuilding the Temple

 7 Then they gave money to the masons and carpenters, and gave food and drink and oil to the people of Sidon and Tyre, so that they would bring cedar logs by sea from Lebanon to Joppa, as authorized by Cyrus king of Persia.

Ezra 4:3 (New International Version)

3 But Zerubbabel, Jeshua and the rest of the heads of the families of Israel answered, "You have no part with us in building a temple to our God. We alone will build it for the LORD, the God of Israel, as King Cyrus, the king of Persia, commanded us."

Ezra 5:13 (New International Version)

13 "However, in the first year of Cyrus king of Babylon, King Cyrus issued a decree to rebuild this house of God.

Ezra 5:14 (New International Version)

14 He even removed from the temple [a] of Babylon the gold and silver articles of the house of God, which Nebuchadnezzar had taken from the temple in Jerusalem and brought to the temple [b] in Babylon.

       "Then King Cyrus gave them to a man named Sheshbazzar, whom he had appointed governor,

Footnotes:

  1. Ezra 5:14 Or palace
  2. Ezra 5:14 Or palace
 

Ezra 5:17 (New International Version)

17 Now if it pleases the king, let a search be made in the royal archives of Babylon to see if King Cyrus did in fact issue a decree to rebuild this house of God in Jerusalem. Then let the king send us his decision in this matter.

Ezra 6:3 (New International Version)

3 In the first year of King Cyrus, the king issued a decree concerning the temple of God in Jerusalem:
       Let the temple be rebuilt as a place to present sacrifices, and let its foundations be laid. It is to be ninety feet [a] high and ninety feet wide,

Footnotes:

  1. Ezra 6:3 Aramaic sixty cubits (about 27 meters)

Isaiah 41:2 (New International Version)

2 "Who has stirred up one from the east,
       calling him in righteousness to his service [a] ?
       He hands nations over to him
       and subdues kings before him.
       He turns them to dust with his sword,
       to windblown chaff with his bow.

Footnotes:

  1. Isaiah 41:2 Or / whom victory meets at every step

Isaiah 41:3 (New International Version)

3 He pursues them and moves on unscathed,
       by a path his feet have not traveled before.

 

Isaiah 44:28 (New International Version)

28 who says of Cyrus, 'He is my shepherd
       and will accomplish all that I please;
       he will say of Jerusalem, "Let it be rebuilt,"
       and of the temple, "Let its foundations be laid."

Isaiah 46:11 (New International Version)

11 From the east I summon a bird of prey;
       from a far-off land, a man to fulfill my purpose.
       What I have said, that will I bring about;
       what I have planned, that will I do.

Isaiah 48:14 (New International Version)

 14 "Come together, all of you, and listen:

       Which of the idols has foretold these things?
       The LORD's chosen ally
       will carry out his purpose against Babylon;
       his arm will be against the Babylonians. [a]

Footnotes:

  1. Isaiah 48:14 Or Chaldeans ; also in verse 20

Isaiah 48:15 (New International Version)

15 I, even I, have spoken;
       yes, I have called him.
       I will bring him,
       and he will succeed in his mission.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Land of Aryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2006 at 08:59
Ok, Here:
1 "This is what the LORD says to his anointed,
       to Cyrus, whose right hand

He called "Anointed" & "Right hand"

Quote The “right hand” is a symbol of activity and strength; the Lord directs Cyrus’ activities and assures his success.

&
Quote “anointed” = “his appointed king.”


in another soureces:
Anointed=his appointed king==>his chosen one
"Right hand" is Constant

Originally posted by http://www.bible.org/netbible/isa45.htm http://www.bible.org/netbible/isa45.htm wrote:


45:1 This is what the Lord says to his chosen one,

to Cyrus, whose right hand I hold

in order to subdue nations before him,

and disarm kings,

to open doors before him,


so gates remain unclosed....


&
Anointed=his appointed king=his chosen one==>His Selection
Originally posted by http://www.biblekeeper.com/bible-in-english/isaiah_45.php http://www.biblekeeper.com/bible-in-english/isaiah_45.php wrote:


The Lord says to the man of his selection, to Cyrus, whom I have taken by the right hand,

& at last, all of those word are translation of:
Anointed=his appointed king=his chosen one=His Selection==>Christo

Originally posted by </span>http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/vul/isa045.htm#001 http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/vul/isa045.htm#001 wrote:


45:1 haec dicit Dominus christo meo Cyro cuius adprehendi dexteram ut subiciam ante faciem eius gentes et dorsa regum vertam et aperiam coram eo ianuas et portae non cludentur

It's same title of "Jesus Christ", isn't it??
But, for by which reason, It has translated to
Anointed=his appointed king=his chosen one=His Selection
& why they didn't keep main world "Christ" ??
2 christ May not exist!!??

Then according the Book, He is Christ

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Land of Aryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2006 at 09:17
& also:
God calls him by name:
Quote the God of Israel, who summons you by name.

& so, Is there 1% possibility, that next time Jews priest, Create somebody with name of Jesus Christ??
Jesus was in Jewish environment 500 years after Cyrus, but Cyrus was in Zartoshtian environment & Maybe without any relation to Jews & far from therir land
Was Cyrus the Main Christ???
(I don't going to deny Jesus)
I want to say & Proof Cyrus maynot be fake of name some body in Book
le();
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Land of Aryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2006 at 09:46
& Another Important part:
Quote 28 who says of Cyrus, 'He is my shepherd
       and will accomplish all that I please;
       he will say of Jerusalem, "Let it be rebuilt,"
       and of the temple, "Let its foundations be laid."

as I know Shepherd is title for Prophets, Isn't it??
Did he mention as Prophet whom is God's Christ (
Anointed,appointed king, chosen one, Selection) whom summons by Name whom appoinetd  to build God's temple, Whom was rose up with God's righeousness by God whom God have even spoken him whom God made all his ways straight, Leveled mountains broke down gates, Whom God went b4 him & also God's Ally??

Was he a Porophet??
Was he Christ??

Thank you
I'm looking for your opinions
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Iranian41ife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2006 at 16:37

this actually might makes sense.

because he saved the jews.

therefore, it is plausible, if you believe in God, that he was sent by God (a Prophet, or Christ) to save teh jews.

"If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2006 at 18:41

moved to the intellectual forum

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Super Goat (^_^) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2006 at 01:08
So is he Jesus or Dhul Qarnain Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Land of Aryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2006 at 06:09
Here is about Bible
& Dhul Qarnanin is in Quran


& so nobody said Jesus

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Land of Aryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2006 at 15:06
Nobody has anything to add
wow, for 1st time in AE all people agree
or ....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2006 at 16:02
I really don't understand what you mean, LoA. Isaiah mentions that Cyrus is favored by Jehovah... so what? Jews were happy about Cyrus, weren't they? some day they will write hyms to Churchill and Stalin... or maybe not. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Land of Aryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2006 at 16:32
I don't say  Jews like him or not,

I said " Was he a Porophet??
Was he Christ??
"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2006 at 02:33

may be in Judaisim he is considered a Prophet, you need to take a religiouse Jews' opinion here and i think they will tell you what Cyrus considered to them.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2006 at 04:28
Possible I think. Parsees were/are considered People of the Book by some muslims, so it makes sense that there may have been one or more Prophets sent to them by God.

Basically I don't know enough to judge but.
"O Byzantines! If success is your desire and if you seek right guidance and want your empire to remain then give the pledge to this Prophet"
~ Heraclius, Roman Emperor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2006 at 04:35

 

i dont think it has anything to do with islam, not all people considered prophets by jews are considered prophets by muslims.

there are some prophets jews dont considere as prophets and muslims does.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2006 at 06:22
Originally posted by Land of Aryan Land of Aryan wrote:

I don't say  Jews like him or not,

I said " Was he a Porophet??
Was he Christ??
"


He wasnt because all those Judaist books are nothing but a bunch of lies.

Was Stalin a prophet? Was Stalin a Christ?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Land of Aryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2006 at 08:02
Yes, We need some jews here.
& also in the main text of Isaiah, He is Christ, but word changed in translations, Why??!!!!
Becuz the Christ must be one man & he is Jesus!!??
or They are waiting for another one!!!???

& also, We don't consider him as Prophet. he consider as Great man & Father of IRan.
Iranian had only one prophet & he is Zartosht,
also Mani or Mazdak, in history non of them considered as prophet.

but other nations prophets were/are respectful for us.

@MAju: Yes, maybe there are some lies in books
but some people believe that

What about Hitler?? he may fullfill all terms
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Loknar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2006 at 18:06

So, Maju, do you have anything valuable to add? Your comments are completely reactive to this discussion. We are not discussing if the books are a bunch of lies.

And I believe the Bible says that the Son of God would have to come from a descendant of King David. Cyrus to my knowledge is not a descendant of King David.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2006 at 18:29
What discussion?

It was more a monologue of LoA with a few comments. I wanted to give my opinion, once I found what was all about.

This is "intelectual discussion", not theological ranting.

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