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Forum LockedCultural Elements from Shamanism

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    Posted: 23-Mar-2005 at 10:42

Are there any Shamanistic beliefs which are still believed and respected by todays generations of modern Turkic nations? I know that some Turkic nations are still Shamanists, but I mean in the Muslim Turkic communuties, from Uighurs to Turkey Turks...

I heard that not cutting your nails at night, not chewing gum at night and also not looking a mirror in darkness are some of these cultural inheritances of thousands of years...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Mar-2005 at 12:13
Yes, actually the old Shaman Turkish New Year.  It just past a couple days ago.  Most people call it Nevruz or close to it, or Ergenekon Bayram.  Most Turkish nations and regions celebrate this day, the only Turks I know of that don't celebrate it are Turks of western Turkey.  It represents the day the Gokturks left the Ergenekon Valley to form the new Turkish empire and also the Shaman New Year.  This year we're in the year of the Bird.  They Shaman calendar is a 12 animal calendar, close to the Chinese calendar.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ihsan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2005 at 16:48

I hate the name "Ergenekon" when it's used for the creation myth of the Gök Türks. Ergenekon is the name of the Mongol Creation Myth and the CM of the Gök Türks was surely different from Ergenekon though both myths are still quiet similar to each other.

Anyway; there are still Teñrist elements in Turkish Islam; such as respecting the dead, constructing large tombs for important people, tying colored things to trees, etc...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2005 at 18:15
Why don't you like the word Ergenekon?  I was always taught that myth was for Turks as well as Mongols.  Do a lot of Turks agree with you?  Because you're the first Turk I've ever hear say that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2005 at 20:01
AFAIK you can find many elements of Siberian and central Asian shamanism in Native American religions, left overs from teh crossings I guess, even in sedentary Olmec society the shaman retains the power that he had in Siberian tribal structure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote babyblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2005 at 22:57
Originally posted by Oguzoglu Oguzoglu wrote:

 

I heard that not cutting your nails at night, not chewing gum at night and also not looking a mirror in darkness are some of these cultural inheritances of thousands of years...

    hmm...who would look at a mirror in the dark?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2005 at 23:08
Korea's hardly a Turkic nation, but we still retain lots of Shamanistic elements..

My mom's real into reading dreams..

My uncles get mad when I whistle at night. "It calls snakes"

People still consult Mudangs (Shaman Priestess).

SK's religious affiliations are divided between the Christians and the Buddhists, but everyone still believes in some Shamanist stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Mar-2005 at 11:14

Yeah, building great tombs is one of them. Just look at it. Turks build two great tombs for Ataturk and Turgut Özal (Well, I dont think he deserved one...).

And about Nevruz, it is the beginning of the new year in old Turkish 12 animals calender, and it is still celebrated.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Mar-2005 at 12:24
I believe that's what I had said.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ihsan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Mar-2005 at 05:22

Quote Why don't you like the word Ergenekon?  I was always taught that myth was for Turks as well as Mongols.  Do a lot of Turks agree with you?  Because you're the first Turk I've ever hear say that.

Ergenekon or Ergene-khun belongs to the Mongols, not to the Turks. The Turkic peoples in general didn't have a common myth like this but the Gök Türks had a similar myth which is recorded in Chinese sources. Some weirdo 20th century Turkish statesmen decided that Ergenekon belongs to the Turks so they made us celebrate it in the Coming of the Spring festivals.

Funny thing is that the Mongolian Ergene-khun or the Mongolian Creation Myth is probably a different version of the Gök Türk creation myth but after all these two are different myths and they should not be confused.

Besides, the Gök Türk creation myth belonged only to the Gök Türks, not to all the other Turkic peoples. The Gaoche, Uyghurs, Qïrghïz, Oghuz, etc had their own creation myths or legends like that.

Quote And about Nevruz, it is the beginning of the new year in old Turkish 12 animals calender, and it is still celebrated.

Well actually Nevruz/Navroz/whateverthehellitis is an Iranic thing; however, what we celebrate is the Coming of the Spring festival and Nevruz is just one of the many such festivals which were and are being celebrated by countless peoples in the World. The Romans, Greeks, Chinese, Iranians, Turkics, etc etc all had their own festival and Nevruz was the Iranian one. When we Turks started contacting with the Islamic World, the name of the Turkic festival was changed to Nevruz and today the Turkic World celebrates it's festival with the name of the Iranian festival.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Mar-2005 at 15:40
I always thought this myth went along with all Turks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Mar-2005 at 09:26

The Oguz people have their own myths of creation, like the myth of creation from a tree and a male wolf.

But I think Ergenekon was a common myth btw Turkic people and Mongols, maybe not Oguz...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Mar-2005 at 11:16
Oguzoglu, if you remember the Oguz Turkish myth may you tell it to me.  I only know the Ergenekon myth.  Thank you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Mar-2005 at 13:28

Yeah, sure :

this link is a fine Turkish source:

http://tt.baskent.edu.tr/turkmitolojisi/oguz.htm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Mar-2005 at 14:13
Good source, thank you. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alparslan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Mar-2005 at 16:56
Originally posted by ihsan ihsan wrote:

Some weirdo 20th century Turkish statesmen decided that Ergenekon belongs to the Turks so they made us celebrate it in the Coming of the Spring festivals.

Who were those statesmen? It seems like they were influential on all around Central Asia and Turkic republics. Very interesting.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote earthwalker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Mar-2005 at 18:06
Does anyone know of any other shamanic/turkic elements in contemporary turkish culture?  Also, the theory of Native Americans originating from Asia, any good resources (book, film, website)? 

What percentage of our -turkish- culture from the steppes of Asia do we still have inbedded in modern turkish culture?

Any insights/ideas/sources to offer, anyone?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ihsan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2005 at 04:11
Ergene-khun belongs to the Mongols and the Turkic didn't have a common creation myth, it's this simple. Get it people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hmongshaman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2005 at 22:28
WOW, shamanism! Hmong, Mien, Lisu, Ahka, and other minority ethnic in today Asian practice Shamanism...Hmong or Miao been practicing shamanism for thousand of year....wow, I didnt know that some of yal know about shamanism...coooool
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2005 at 23:50
Yea we do, Turks were Shamans before they adopted Islam.
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