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Forum LockedCould the Minor Asian campaign have worked?

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Count Belisarius View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Count Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Nov-2008 at 20:52
By Armored cavalry I meant tanks
 
But wouldn't they make a big target? I mean one machine gun and goodbye cavalry, now I can see the mobility side of things but in a charge? please tell me I'd really like to know BTW what about cavalry in the seventeen-eighteen hundreds how did they keep form being eviscerated please be detailed in your answer 
 
To the staff: don't worry this is the last cavalry question I'm gonna ask on this thread


Edited by Count Belisarius - 05-Nov-2008 at 20:52


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Nov-2008 at 23:06

I didn't mean that Greece would keep it. Greece would propably opt to exchange Constantinople/Istanbul, with a recognition by Kemal of the Greek presence in Anatolia.

But even if Greece was to keep Constantinople/Istanbul, that would mean only the west side (original Constantinople, as the other side was other villages/towns -Pera, Skutari). You know how hard is an amphibious offensive? Believe me, the Greek army, with 16 divisions, would be able to repell any attempts of amphibious assaults (at least until recently).

Hmm. It would just make nationalist much more powerful. There would be no rebellion against them(some of them was realy harmed them much.) Istanbul goverment would not fight against kemalists and most probably sultan would support them.. It just would unify all Turkish forces against greeks.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Nov-2008 at 11:51
Originally posted by Temujin Temujin wrote:

plus raiding behind enemy lines and cutting supply lines through their speed. i said "real" cavalry because you mentioned armored cavalry which is not cavalry but armored cars. cavalry are just men on horses and nothing else.
 
I took 'real' cavalry to mean 'not just mounted infantry'. Clarifying, I gather that you and Xristar mean something like Stuart's 'cavalry' in the US Civil War?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Nov-2008 at 16:27
yeah like ACW cavalry pretty much, or often called Dragoons.

Originally posted by Count Belisarius Count Belisarius wrote:

By Armored cavalry I meant tanks
 
But wouldn't they make a big target? I mean one machine gun and goodbye cavalry, now I can see the mobility side of things but in a charge? please tell me I'd really like to know BTW what about cavalry in the seventeen-eighteen hundreds how did they keep form being eviscerated please be detailed in your answer 
 
To the staff: don't worry this is the last cavalry question I'm gonna ask on this thread


well, bigger target yes but if machineguns would be so devastating no infantry charge in ww1 would have even come close to ever capturing an enemy trench. in fact horses are larger animals, yes, that also means they have more stamina and can take on more than humans. reports from the charge of the Australian Lighthorse at Beersheba suggest that those horses in the spirit of the moment even though heavily wounded charged home with their fellow horses before collapsing to die.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Nov-2008 at 16:33
Originally posted by xristar xristar wrote:


Greece soon found out that they were not welcome in Anatolia by the muslim population, while also a revolutionary faction, under Mustafa Kemal, was taking military action against the Sevres treaty (that included fighting with Armenians, French and British).
 
I wonder if Turkey would be able to do that without Ataturk? Wasn't he the key factor?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beylerbeyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Nov-2008 at 16:48
Quote I wonder if Turkey would be able to do that without Ataturk? Wasn't he the key factor?
 
He was a great general and a good leader, but I think main difference would be the character of the state after the war. There were other generals (he was not the only one who planned the battles) and they could have managed to win the war. But they were not as radical as he was when it came to Westernisation. I am not sure about the Sultanate, but at least the caliphate was not likely to be abolished.  
Always try to be as radical as reality itself. - Lenin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Nov-2008 at 17:08
I'm sorry for for this kind of comparison.
But IMO the character of Ataturk is somehow similar to Lenin both men were able to mobilize the people in the mindst of the terrible chaoses and defeat the enemies which seemed to be much more stronger.
In this regard the personal characters of Ataturk and Lenin played a crucial role. I'm 100% sure that the Bolshevik revolution in Russia was doomed should Lenin and Trotsky have been assisinated.
Were there any assisination attempts on Ataturk's life?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Nov-2008 at 17:55
Multiple attempts.
 
The most famous is probably when he discovered a hatched a plot originating from Izmir around 1925.
 
Wki:  On 4 March 1925, to deal with the Sheikh Said Rebellion, the "Maintenance of Public Order Law" was passed, which gave the government exceptional powers. The law, which was repealed on 4 March 1929, included all the tools and authority to shut down subversive groups. During 1926 a plot to assassinate Mustafa Kemal was uncovered in İzmir. It was found to originate with a former deputy who had opposed the abolition of the Caliphate and had a personal grudge. Quickly the trail turned from inquiry of planners of this attempt to an investigation carried out ostensibly to uncover subversive activities and actually used to undermine those with differing views regarding the cultural revolution. The sweeping investigation brought before the tribunal a large number of political opponents, including Karabekir, the leader of PRP. A number of surviving leaders of the Committee of Union and Progress, who were at best second-rank in the Turkish movement, including Cavid, Ahmed Şükrü, and Ismail Canbulat were found guilty of treason and hanged.[35] During these investigations there was a link, a support, that was uncovered among the members of the PRP to the Sheikh Said Rebellion. The PRP was dissolved following the outcomes of the trial. The pattern of organized opposition, however, was broken. This action was the only broad political purge during Atatürk's presidency. Mustafa Kemal's saying "my mortal body will turn into dust, but the Republic of Turkey will last forever" was regarded as a will after the assassination attempt.[
 
 
During the tumultuous years of Ottoman disintegration, Greek governments sent under cover agents to Anatolia to organise rebel groups in order to disrupt order and massacre local population. These gangs viciously murdered women, children, elderly indiscriminately in their own villages. Their attempt to assassinate Ataturk on his arrival to Samsun in 19 May 1919 is described by Greek author Hristos Samuelidis in his book "Black Sea":
 


Edited by Seko - 06-Nov-2008 at 20:36
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Count Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Nov-2008 at 23:36
BTW Temujin I found out something really interesting about russian cavalry in WWII I posted it in military history in the cavalry charge thread 

Edited by Count Belisarius - 06-Nov-2008 at 23:41


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