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Forum LockedCould Bush be prosecuted?

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    Posted: 18-Apr-2009 at 23:30
Considering how "little" tiny world leaders can do to earn prosecution and imprisonment - and aside the fact that this can simply not happen to a President of the United States of America, AND the fact that Bush pre-pardoned himself and members of his staff by his own act, could he really be charged for something?

And lastly, also at the same time more importantly - is your opinion that he SHOULD be charged, if he could?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2009 at 09:45
No he cant, no one can challenge the USA into giving up ex presidents. No one got Clinton over the bombing of Yugoslavia, so don't expect Bush to be charged for what he has done. The winners and powerful write the rules, not blind justice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2009 at 09:49
yes of course any leader, be it US, Bosnian or Iraqi should be charged. But there is no real and robust supra-national body that isn't sponsored by the powerful. At the end of the day the sovereign country is a rule onto itself if it can defend that right

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2009 at 10:15
Of course Bush can be prosecuted. Any democracy can trial its presidents.
With respect to the bombing of Yugoslavia, well, it was done to stop a genocide. Nobody would have judge Clinton for doing what all the world expected from him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2009 at 10:25
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Of course Bush can be prosecuted. Any democracy can trial its presidents.
With respect to the bombing of Yugoslavia, well, it was done to stop a genocide. Nobody would have judge Clinton for doing what all the world expected from him.
Presidents don't seem to get convicted on foreign policy.

As for the 'genocide', your talking Kosovo right? use the word when its deserved not when CNN says it so. Bosnia was much worse than that, and we can start using many other state vs insurgents examples where the USA didnt come in and 'save the day'. pff.

Clinton bombed a sovergn nation which is now split up by force.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Akolouthos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2009 at 10:42
Originally posted by Leonidas Leonidas wrote:

Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Of course Bush can be prosecuted. Any democracy can trial its presidents.
With respect to the bombing of Yugoslavia, well, it was done to stop a genocide. Nobody would have judge Clinton for doing what all the world expected from him.
Presidents don't seem to get convicted on foreign policy.

As for the 'genocide', your talking Kosovo right? use the word when its deserved not when CNN says it so. Bosnia was much worse than that, and we can start using many other state vs insurgents examples where the USA didnt come in and 'save the day'. pff.

Clinton bombed a sovergn nation which is now split up by force.
 
Well said, and much more charitably so than I would have (which only goes to show my imperfection and weakness). Thank you for challenging the nonsense that our press fed us about that war. That is not to say that the Serbs were blameless -- only that they were far from the only ones to be blamed.
 
It never ceases to amaze: the same people who oppose what I consider an immoral war in Iraq have no qualms about justifying the equally immoral war undertaken in the Balkans by an individual they find more palatable. Just goes to show that when it comes right down to it, most people today will justify anything if it serves their tribal political interests, eh?
 
-Akolouthos


Edited by Akolouthos - 19-Apr-2009 at 10:46
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2009 at 10:57
Personally, if I could prosecute Bush for one thing, it would be Hurricane Katrina. The sheer number of deaths caused by professional negligence..... I do not know why Americans did not riot over the callous excuse for stewardship Bush Jr was responsible for. Collatoral damage inflicted overseas as a global hyperpower is one sin, letting your own people die through sheer neglect and a half assed attitude towards your responsibilities is in my opinion a far worse one.

I hope the American people, who have been so terribly let down by that government's executive cabinet, will be able to hold those people accountable for such inexcusable and ultimately fatal failures. I happen to like a great deal of what that nation and its people have given to the world, and I earnestly reckon they deserved far better.


Edited by Constantine XI - 19-Apr-2009 at 10:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2009 at 11:00
The real question is why Bush isn't being prosecuted. I don't think there is any question that he'll get away with it, pretty much like any corrupt American politician with big contacts before or since.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2009 at 15:32
Specifically with what breaches of what law is it suggested Bush should be charged?
 
You can't be prosecuted for being immoral. (Not in a country under the rule of law anyway.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2009 at 15:41
Originally posted by Akolouthos Akolouthos wrote:

...
Well said, and much more charitably so than I would have (which only goes to show my imperfection and weakness). Thank you for challenging the nonsense that our press fed us about that war. That is not to say that the Serbs were blameless -- only that they were far from the only ones to be blamed.
 
It never ceases to amaze: the same people who oppose what I consider an immoral war in Iraq have no qualms about justifying the equally immoral war undertaken in the Balkans by an individual they find more palatable. Just goes to show that when it comes right down to it, most people today will justify anything if it serves their tribal political interests, eh?
 
-Akolouthos
 
Because we saw that war directly on TV. Not only American teams cover it but also reporters from our own countries!
And we saw the genocide going on in direct.
 
Perhaps you could find the movies you never saw first, before suggesting people don't know what happened in Yugoslavia.Angry
 
Just think a bit. There is no oil in Yugoslavia and before the scenes of genocide started to shown nobody cared for that country at all.
 
 
 


Edited by pinguin - 19-Apr-2009 at 15:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2009 at 15:42
Originally posted by Yugoslav Yugoslav wrote:

Considering how "little" tiny world leaders can do to earn prosecution and imprisonment - and aside the fact that this can simply not happen to a President of the United States of America, AND the fact that Bush pre-pardoned himself and members of his staff by his own act, could he really be charged for something?

And lastly, also at the same time more importantly - is your opinion that he SHOULD be charged, if he could?
 
He can't and he won't.  Don't waste time thinking about it.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2009 at 15:46
Originally posted by Parnell Parnell wrote:

The real question is why Bush isn't being prosecuted. I don't think there is any question that he'll get away with it, pretty much like any corrupt American politician with big contacts before or since.
 
Or like any politician in any country with big contacts before or since.  Its the order of the universe that's all.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Akolouthos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2009 at 22:33
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Originally posted by Akolouthos Akolouthos wrote:

...
Well said, and much more charitably so than I would have (which only goes to show my imperfection and weakness). Thank you for challenging the nonsense that our press fed us about that war. That is not to say that the Serbs were blameless -- only that they were far from the only ones to be blamed.
 
It never ceases to amaze: the same people who oppose what I consider an immoral war in Iraq have no qualms about justifying the equally immoral war undertaken in the Balkans by an individual they find more palatable. Just goes to show that when it comes right down to it, most people today will justify anything if it serves their tribal political interests, eh?
 
-Akolouthos
 
Because we saw that war directly on TV. Not only American teams cover it but also reporters from our own countries!
And we saw the genocide going on in direct.
 
Perhaps you could find the movies you never saw first, before suggesting people don't know what happened in Yugoslavia.Angry
 
Just think a bit. There is no oil in Yugoslavia and before the scenes of genocide started to shown nobody cared for that country at all.
 
 
 
 
Your level headedness and ability to think critically do you credit. Wink
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yugoslav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Apr-2009 at 01:41
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Of course Bush can be prosecuted. Any democracy can trial its presidents.
With respect to the bombing of Yugoslavia, well, it was done to stop a genocide. Nobody would have judge Clinton for doing what all the world expected from him.


Who ever talked about stopping a genocide back then?

Also pple, this is about Bush, not Clinton.


Edited by Yugoslav - 20-Apr-2009 at 01:48
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yugoslav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Apr-2009 at 01:43
Originally posted by Parnell Parnell wrote:

The real question is why Bush isn't being prosecuted. I don't think there is any question that he'll get away with it, pretty much like any corrupt American politician with big contacts before or since.


Parnell, he pre-pardoned himself (in case for prosecution of permitting violations of human rights, using vague excuses including legal glitches).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yugoslav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Apr-2009 at 01:44
Originally posted by pikeshot1600 pikeshot1600 wrote:

Originally posted by Yugoslav Yugoslav wrote:

Considering how "little" tiny world leaders can do to earn prosecution and imprisonment - and aside the fact that this can simply not happen to a President of the United States of America, AND the fact that Bush pre-pardoned himself and members of his staff by his own act, could he really be charged for something?

And lastly, also at the same time more importantly - is your opinion that he SHOULD be charged, if he could?
 
He can't and he won't.  Don't waste time thinking about it.
 
 


Wow, someone got up on his left leg this morning!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Apr-2009 at 02:32
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Because we saw that war directly on TV. Not only American teams cover it but also reporters from our own countries!
And we saw the genocide going on in direct.
 
Perhaps you could find the movies you never saw first, before suggesting people don't know what happened in Yugoslavia.Angry
 
Just think a bit. There is no oil in Yugoslavia and before the scenes of genocide started to shown nobody cared for that country at all.
 
I would say you niave on the subject.
 
Nothing on TV or on film, ever was proof. Surely you must be thinking Bosnia or mixing up footages of passenger trains, embassies or albanian refugee convoys being hit by western bombers. Surely you must of seen plans that show the intent of genocide, no?
 
No one had enough access to Kosovo on the ground (to witness the Serbian vs KLA fight on both sides) and considering the NATO bombing campaign - that may be better for the NATO commanders than the Serbian ones. If it was so black and white then link the sources back, should be easy.....
 
Only Clinton claimed such things (on inflated numbers that never held up)  and not even US based organistions like Stratfor support Clintons story or allegations. Once the smoke cleared it ended up being a massive media beat up; bad but not what was reported. If you think that the US would go in for humanitarian reasons, then they would of been better served in Africa where the scales of pain are much much bigger, or maybe they should of done something aginats Turkey when they battled the PKK. Again on a much bigger scale than little kosovo (and with oil) - oops its a NATO country so its a state vs illegal 'terrorist'.
 
Once upon a time the KLA were branded by the State Dep in the same way, then all of a sudden things changed, opportunities arise. Of course the USA records are one that we can saefly assume they had no other motiveErmm
 
There was no need for OIL, Yugoslavia was the only non NATO country left to clean up in the region.  Its break up was a strategic goal that has in the end, been achevied. Russia has now been kicked back east and largely out of the balkans.


Edited by Leonidas - 20-Apr-2009 at 02:38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Apr-2009 at 02:48
There were crimes against humanity occurring in Kosovo on the orders of Milosevic to "tone" down the riots and dissent if you will. The KLA did also commit some crimes, but not to the level of Serbian forces. Genocide would apply in Bosnia, but not in Kosovo though.

Kosovo is an independent nation today - whether or not the UN agrees on that fully or not. Look what happened in Georgia earlier. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Apr-2009 at 04:54
Originally posted by es_bih es_bih wrote:

There were crimes against humanity occurring in Kosovo on the orders of Milosevic to "tone" down the riots and dissent if you will. The KLA did also commit some crimes, but not to the level of Serbian forces. Genocide would apply in Bosnia, but not in Kosovo though.

Kosovo is an independent nation today - whether or not the UN agrees on that fully or not. Look what happened in Georgia earlier. 


agreed, Bosnia and kososvo are in different leagues. The G word is thrown around way to cheaply. The KLA started shooting Serb farmers years before Milo started this campaign.
 
Either way Clinton did attack civilan infrasture and more or less bomb a soveirgn country into submission, meddling in its internal affairs on what was at the time: at the very least big exagerations of the truth, at worse lies. He needs to be examined as much as Bush. The only difference between the two - one was popular and not as big a Sht as the other who everyone just hates... but hey attacking a soveirgn country based on light wieght reasons and punishing the civilan population is something they both share. Clinton first then Bush
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Apr-2009 at 06:45
What i would like to know and never even thought to ask... whose bright idea was it to start trying foreign leaders? Was it someone from the era of world war 2? Further... If so is this something that has recently been re-implemented from that era? Or.... is this an idea that has been a round for several centuries?

Personally, i think this is a can of worms that should not have been opened at this point in time of human history.
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