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Forum Locked"cosmic" history.

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fantasus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: "cosmic" history.
    Posted: 21-May-2009 at 14:34

For me, if not for others, the following theme may be worth some thoughts, even in a historical context: We may probably in the very near future see evidence for planet systems and planets very similar to our own (regarding mass, distance from "sun", size and other things observable). The details about "Intelligent beings" , and even their existence, may still be hypothetical, but what could we have in common? May "history" in some sense be something uiversal, perhaps even some "large patterns"? Those who speculate about "technological civilisations", and even more "advanced" ones may silently accept such "patterns" - at least a "progressive" or "evolutionary" one. Such an idea about "technolologica" or other progress as inevitable is perhaps an idea in nead of discussion and challenge. "Laws", "large patterns" are perhaps not favored (for good reasons) today, but still we may wonder what, if anything, we may have in common.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zaitsev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-May-2009 at 15:00
In the most respectful way, I think it a complete waste of anyone's time and brain cells to ponder such issues.

Edited by Zaitsev - 21-May-2009 at 15:00
Straw Man - a weak or sham argument
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-May-2009 at 15:07

Are we really going to find extraterrestrial civilizations? No matter Carl Sagan's enthusiasm, there are many people that dissagre. The fact is, astronomers have been searching for signs of extraterrestrial civilizations during half a century, and they haven't found a single evidence of them.

"He who attempts to count the stars, not even knowing how to count the knots of the 'quipus'(counting string), ought to be held in derision."

Inca Pachacutec (1438-1471)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peteratwar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-May-2009 at 16:32
The blink of an eyelid
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2009 at 10:55
First we may not disagree so much that finding"aliens" are probably very hypothetical in the foreseeable future (in contrast to closing in on possible home planets, since I believe that is happening these years). But perhaps the very idea of them, and what have allready been found of other solar systems give us an opportunity to view ourselves from a different place - perhaps even in a way to see some "old problems" from a different angle(some of You may say I am wrong and I cannot proof my case in any sense). 
I also have a strong impression that at least some ideas of historical "univerality" flourish among not only historians but the larger public. Especially an idea about evoulion and "progress" in some key areas(technologies, science) as "inevitable".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2009 at 18:00
Several hundred billion stars in the Milky Way alone and billions of similar sized galaxies in the universe, what are the chances there aren't similar civilizations to ours? It must be vanishingly small.
 
The conditions neccessary would probably be a small rocky planet in the Goldilocks zone around a smallish, stable, long lived star. A double planet system like the Earth/Moon also seems important as the moon has a stabilizing effect on the Earth, kind of like a gravitational sea anchor, moderating the climate. If those conditions arose here, they can and almost certainly will arise somewhere else. Also given that life rose fairly early in the Earths history and the ingredients for life seem to be abundant in the Universe such as amino acids, and water it's likely to a process repeated often outside our solar system.


Edited by DukeC - 22-May-2009 at 18:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2009 at 22:15
Well, "Cosmic" history may have relevance as a basis for science fiction - that's about all.
 
It isn't a bad thing.  Sci-fi is certainly an interesting genre. 
 
 


Edited by pikeshot1600 - 22-May-2009 at 22:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2009 at 22:19

What are the chances we are alone? Who knows. Perhaps 1.

Fermi and others have agree in the Rare Earth Hypothesis.
 
 
The Fermi paradox, in particular, shot quite a bit of flying saucers away:
 
 
 
"He who attempts to count the stars, not even knowing how to count the knots of the 'quipus'(counting string), ought to be held in derision."

Inca Pachacutec (1438-1471)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2009 at 07:16
If instead the discussion were about there is any meaning in talking about "large patterns" of history, and to doing it from "above" or from a "higher point" no one would mistake the meaning and actually climb a mountain and buy a good telescope to get such a grand view!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-May-2009 at 18:32
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

What are the chances we are alone? Who knows. Perhaps 1.

Fermi and others have agree in the Rare Earth Hypothesis.
 
 
The Fermi paradox, in particular, shot quite a bit of flying saucers away:
 
 
 
 
Even if our stellar system is rare, we're talking about billions of such systems in the Milkyway alone plus billions of similar sized galaxies in the universe. The chances for "intelligent" life to generate and evolve somewhere else are close to infinite. That doesn't mean we're going to be bumping into them any time soon given the vast scale involved.
 
The Fermi Paradox assumes that radio would remain an important means of communication for E.T. civilizations for long periods. The chances are they would soon find more efficient means that aren't easy or even possible to detect from a distance with our technology(how about something like modulated gravity waves). A bushman in the middle of New Guinea 70 years ago would have had no idea of the modern world around him, it didn't mean it wasn't there, it was just beyond his level of development to detect.
 
Even the amount of radio energy that's been broadcast since the advent of modern communications on Earth would be hard to detect from light years away given its low signal strength.


Edited by DukeC - 26-May-2009 at 18:33
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