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Forum LockedCommunism by the back passage

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    Posted: 04-Mar-2008 at 15:38
Many many years ago in the UK, Tesco were one of many competing supermarket chains. Then the fad for hypermarkets hit and they got a lead being the first to do it. They started selling other things than groceries. You can buy electronics, hardware, kitchenware, clothes, gardening equipment, travel and hiking stuff, the list is endless. They put almost all the small shops in the UK in the areas they sell out of business. Next they stopped buying these goods off other countries and set up making their own brands in China at cheaper prices, taking the factotries out too. Then they targetted the oil companies opening up petrol stations in their markets, selling "cost price" petrol to attract customers. "Cost price" not even the oil giants can compete with. Then they targeted the banks. With branches closing down, huge queues and millions of disatisfied customers. Why not do your banking at the supermarket checkout, at least you get customer service. Naturally then as with a bank, all financial services follow. Now you go to the hypermarket to get your insurance, mortgages, pensions and loans. Of course why stop there, why not become a gas and electricity provider, offer broadband and take on the mobile phone companies. Tesco travel agents do everything from sell flights to arrange whole package holiday deals. Tesco have now announced they are becoming estate agents.
 
So nowadays I can go to a Tesco shop, fill my car up with petrol, get my groceries, sell my house, rent a flat, buy the furniture, electronics gear ect, have a phone line, broadband, gas and electricity installed. I can withdraw some money from my Tesco bank account, arrange a pension, get insurance and a car loan to buy a car and insure it. Finally I can book a holiday and have a break from Tesco, get away to China to see the Tesco factories...... all without leaving the same shop.
 
The Tesco monster is growing daily. Soon it will have smother and choked the life out of every other business in the country. There will only be one business in the whole country, Tesco. And only one company contributing funds to politicals parties (or party), Tesco.
 
So here's my theory........... Global Corperatisation, naturally develops into Communism.
 
 


Edited by Paul - 04-Mar-2008 at 15:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2008 at 17:06
Tesco, Walmart, etc. These big super-duper, humongous, foreign labor commie conglomerates (did I leave out any other descriptions of the word "leviathan?) seem to be trend. The CEO's should run for president under the 'Conservative' or 'Republican' party; open up a military budget and sell depleted uranium tipped bb guns to unsuspecting youth while touting free trade agreements at the parents.

Edited by Seko - 04-Mar-2008 at 17:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goban Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2008 at 14:10
Interesting hypothesis. I'll bring it up with my poli-sci professor at Tesco University. Even further, I'll ask for spiritual guidance from father Flanagan at Tesco Chapel...
 
 
It's no big deal. I live at Tesco apartments, so it won't take but a few minutes. I'll pick up a pizza and some cream soda while I'm out too.... Does anyone need anything while I'm there?
 


Edited by Goban - 05-Mar-2008 at 14:23
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2008 at 14:30
When business develops such a monopoly on political power and the market, it becomes a reactive body which strives to simply maintain its position. Conservatism sets in, and it rots.

A nation that allows itself to be conquered in such a way will itself be toppled by a nation which does not. The nation which does not will impose strict laws banning certain conglomerates from operating across certain industries. Australia itself has the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC), which specifically regulates industry to ensure that monopolies do not develop and that competitive behaviour between business always remains as competitive as possible. It is nations with institutions such as this which will develop the edge, both commercially and politically, and ultimately out-compete the nations which allow themselves to be commandeered by the hyper conglomerate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2008 at 14:46
Originally posted by Goban Goban wrote:

Interesting hypothesis. I'll bring it up with my poli-sci professor at Tesco University. Even further, I'll ask for spiritual guidance from father Flanagan at Tesco Chapel...
 
 
It's no big deal. I live at Tesco apartments, so it won't take but a few minutes. I'll pick up a pizza and some cream soda while I'm out too.... Does anyone need anything while I'm there?
 
 
 
I hope they offer a better social security package for the unemployed and use the Tesco Marines wisely.
 
 


Edited by Paul - 05-Mar-2008 at 14:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2008 at 15:34
It is not communism by the back passage, it is capitalism in your face.  Smile
 
Wal-Mart/Tesco, WTF?  Capitalism is a monopolistic force, and despises competition.  That forces expense on innovation and development, and cuts into the compensation of management.  Make no mistake, for-profit corporations are run for, and decisions predicated upon management's comp.  Any additional benefit to someone else is a byproduct; like what you learned at school (had you been paying attention in the first place.)
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2008 at 15:44
Isn't that the dictionary defination of state communism? You just replace the management with commissar and share holder with party member. State coomunism at heart, is simply a country with a single company, the government. The goal of a global corperation, (destiny of of the west) is a single company. The telos of capitalism is state communism.
 
 


Edited by Paul - 05-Mar-2008 at 15:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2008 at 16:19
Originally posted by Paul Paul wrote:

Isn't that the dictionary defination of state communism? You just replace the management with commissar and share holder with party member. State coomunism at heart, is simply a country with a single company, the government. The goal of a global corperation, (destiny of of the west) is a single company. The telos of capitalism is state communism.
 
 
 
OK....potato; potahto.  No one will call it communism though.  Communism is so not fashionable.
 
In capitalistic models, commissars are replaced by robber barons, AKA management.  Do you think management gives a rat's ass about shareholders other than themselves?
 
We can chalk this up to human nature.  (I am quite the cynic amn't I?)
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2008 at 16:38
Originally posted by pikeshot1600 pikeshot1600 wrote:

 
We can chalk this up to human nature.  (I am quite the cynic amn't I?)
 
Quite, but stick at it, a bit more training, a dash of sardony and we'll make anarchist of you yet.


Edited by Paul - 05-Mar-2008 at 16:38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2008 at 20:35
Communism is a classless society based on common ownership of the means means of production.

So that means Tesco's shares on the stock market are only owned by it's employees (in equal portions) and that it is these employees that together make corporate decisions.

If that's the case then it'd be communism, otherwise it's just corporate capitalism.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2008 at 07:52
Originally posted by Paul Paul wrote:



So here's my theory........... Global Corperatisation, naturally develops into Communism.



I think it probably will develop into something similar, especially as corporations get bigger, and near monopolies begin to form. Or cartels where groups of corporations agree to stop competing and carve the market up between themselves (essentially the same thing as a monopoly).

There's also another element at play; Marx believed a crucial element to communism was the workers losing their property to the capitalist classes to the point they got used to not owning anything. He didn't mean that you wouldn't own your clothes and kitchenwares, he meant that you wouldn't own any land or other major property like vehicles etc. And that your net worth would be less than your assets.

In the credit-driven society we live in, this is precisely what is happening. Especially when one considers the nature of the money that we do have, very few people actually own anything at all at the end of the day.

However it isn't really communism because, although the monopolies will result in something similar to a command economy, and although real property will for most be illusory, the system won't be directed by the state but by corporations. I see it as something more like 21st century manorialism. The state will mostly resemble the era of weak kings surrounded by powerful nobles (the corporations).


Edited by edgewaters - 09-Mar-2008 at 07:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2008 at 18:33
I agree with you about the Manorism, just not for the the future, I think we're in a feudalist society now. The question is what happens when feudalism, dies.
 
In medieval times we got 'Chess Set' feudalism. The King and Queen the most powerful pieces in play but if any two or three major pieces (Barons) ganged up together they were more powerful than them. So the kings power was checked. So in the late medieval era the King eliminated all the barons, rooks, bishops and knights to become the 'devine king' of the rennaissance and he thought all challenges to his power over. But instead he needed the middle class as a replacement to administrate for him and they surplanted him with capaitalism.
 
With this feudalism of corperations I tend to think it will happen different. When the few barons (corperations) murder each other down to only and that one become king. Being a corperation not an individual, it will not a need a middle class to administrate for it and supplant it. Just slaves.
 
Anyway this is what the Paulists believe.
 
 
 


Edited by Paul - 09-Mar-2008 at 18:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2008 at 06:00
Please get our "isms" right.  Marx beleived that the superstructure of a society was dependent on its means of production, the base so to speak. The entire religious, cultural, social and technological values were dependent on the base, and when the base changed so would they, for instance in the changeover from fuedal agarian society to an industrialized one in Marxs time and from industrial to an electronics based society in ours. Communism would occur when the base and superstructure dichotomy would cease to exist since the optimum means of production was found and it would dictate the values of that time, the society which was uptill now based on classes, those who were the exploitors and the exploited, would become classless and thus we would have communism. Marx wrote scant little on what communism would look like.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2008 at 14:07
Obviously one can draw abstract parallels between states and corporations.  Religions too for that matter. And, as someone pointed out, huan nature ensures that the behaviour in each of the possessed and the dispossessed, as well as the partially possessed, will be the same.
 
However, corporations compete just as states compete (or competed) and religions compete, and all interact with one another. It's no more likely that one corporation will win out than it is/was that one state would conquer the world. Especially since it ismuch easier to establish a new corporation, even a large, dominant one than it is to establish a new state, as Microsoft through Yahoo and Google have recently proved. And aging corporations also die out faster - Austin, Morris, now General Motors.
 
In any organisation, though power naturally tends to accrue to the powerful, unless some mechanism exists to feedback some of it down the hierarchy the end is revolution. So autocratic tyranny eventually breaks down.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2008 at 18:22
It's still easy to establish a corperation these days, I agree.
 
However to establish a company and keep it profitable is getting very hard and to establish a small family business, or be a sole trader is dying.
 
It's getting only people with already with serious capital can join the capitalist system. The very people that don't need to.
 
For everyone else there is Ebay or disenfranchisement.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Act of Oblivion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Mar-2008 at 19:16
 
..Hi Paul..
 
....i am pretty sure you may have seen this recent news already about wages of employees for firms who contract to Tesco...but here is the link to the topic anyway....sure adds an interesting aspect to your thread topic...
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Mar-2008 at 23:17
I hate Tesco.  I bought a pack of 8 one per day friendly bacteria bio whatever the hell they are things and the expiry date was 2 days later - yes my fault for not checking but they shouldn't have shit like that on the shelf.
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