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Post Options Post Options   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Classical Music
    Posted: 06-Dec-2008 at 13:55

I must admitt, I don't lister to music period, pop or otherwise, however classical music, especially Beethoven, is simply too good to be ignored. I also like Tchaikovsy (1812 overture particularly).

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Post Options Post Options   Quote cahaya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Dec-2008 at 18:04
classical music.. does traditional music in one country consider as a classical music?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Klaus Fleming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Dec-2008 at 19:38
Originally posted by cahaya

classical music.. does traditional music in one country consider as a classical music?
Good point!
I personally love Russian Orthodox liturgical music, but is it classical or not? Rachmaninov wrote 'All Night Vigil' which would fall to the category of liturgical music, but Rachmaninov is also considered to be a classical composer.
But to get back to the original question of classical music, I would recommend my personal favourites Rachmaninov, Shostakovich and Sibelius.
 
And no, classical music is not elitist. Claiming otherwise, however, is.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Siege Tower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Dec-2008 at 15:00
I strongly recommand Bach's Goldberg variation and make sure it's played by Glenn Gould.
 


Edited by Siege Tower - 11-Dec-2008 at 15:02
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sydney21 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2008 at 06:10
There are some very good "Classics in the Movies" compilation CDs around.  Find your local classic radio station and listen.
There's nothing snobby about classical music, except the prices for live performances.
It's in your genes, like the ability to distinguish between similar wines, or recognise a particular artwork, pick up the nuances of tennis or cricket or fishing or horse-raceing. 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote King Kang of Mu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2008 at 08:15
Originally posted by Siege Tower

I strongly recommand Bach's Goldberg variation and make sure it's played by Glenn Gould.
 
 
I will second to that!Clap
 
 
If not, you can whaych in YouTube.  I will post the first one.
 
Gould on Bach was good enough for NASA to represent the human intelligence of the planet Earth to the rest of the universe. 


Edited by King Kang of Mu - 13-Dec-2008 at 08:20
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Siege Tower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2008 at 21:29
Originally posted by King Kang of Mu

Originally posted by Siege Tower

 
Gould on Bach was good enough for NASA to represent the human intelligence of the planet Earth to the rest of the universe. 
 
Absolutely dude, he was indeed the best pianist ever lived.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote King Kang of Mu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2008 at 04:48
Originally posted by Siege Tower

Originally posted by King Kang of Mu

Originally posted by Siege Tower

 
Gould on Bach was good enough for NASA to represent the human intelligence of the planet Earth to the rest of the universe. 
 
Absolutely dude, he was indeed the best pianist ever lived.
 
I don't know about the best pianist ever lived, at certain level it does become more like that cleashay, 'comparing Picasso and van Gogh' and 99% of the time the right answer is also that cleashay answer, 'Oh, they all were the masters of their own style, no one's better, they are just different......blah blah blah.'.
 
But when it comes to Gould on Bach, his passion for perfection granted him the liberty of expression.  I used to have this book of letters he wrote.....
 
 
 
 
 
 
But, it seems this crowd needs more of this before Glenn Gould, wouldn't you agree,Siege Tower?
 
 
Oh, c'mon I love Benjamin Britten too.  And I like that piece also, not just educational.
 
This scene was also very educational to me when I was young.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2008 at 05:00
Benjamin Britten was integral to my interest in Classical music. I heard his 'Young Person's Guide To Orchestra' which he composed just after WWII, at the Sydney Opera House in 2007. It was a fantastic introduction to the intricacies and elements of a symphony, and sparked a deeper interest in 'classical' music.

In regards to the best pianist - I do not believe I can make a definitive judgment on the matter. Chopin and Rachmaninov would certainly have to be up there.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote King Kang of Mu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2008 at 07:00
Originally posted by Knights

Benjamin Britten was integral to my interest in Classical music. I heard his 'Young Person's Guide To Orchestra' which he composed just after WWII, at the Sydney Opera House in 2007. It was a fantastic introduction to the intricacies and elements of a symphony, and sparked a deeper interest in 'classical' music.

In regards to the best pianist - I do not believe I can make a definitive judgment on the matter. Chopin and Rachmaninov would certainly have to be up there.
 
Base on the music they wrote both Chopin and Rachmaninov would have been virtuosos themselves as players, especially in Rachmaninov's case which usually requires higher difficulty and skill level.  There are recordings to prove it fortunately.
 
 
 
 
 
 
But in Chopin's case we are not so lucky to have records of him playing.
Still everyone recognize and love Nocturne and Impromptu.  One time, me and one of my ex came home sat down on the couch I put on Nocturne and Impromptu, and we both just sat there listen to entire CD without saying a word, we were both started to cry. I mean it's a great day if you cried because you experienced something beautiful.
 
 
 
That made us cry but this made me laugh
 
But even better, how about....
 
Can't diss Liszt after mentioning Chopin
 
 
 
But I've been getting into Erik Satie lately.  I must be still clinging onto my Fripp-Eno-Glass-Reich Minimalists days.  But Satie was John the Baptist of them all.  That makes Bach like Moses?
 
 


Edited by King Kang of Mu - 14-Dec-2008 at 07:05
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2008 at 11:45
I couldn't resist listening to those Rach. and Chopin links you gave. I love Rach's Piano Concerto No. 2 - it is so beautiful. Nocturne and Fantasie Impromptu are favourites as well.

As I said earlier in the thread, one of my favourite works is Bach's Cello Suites. Of the 6  suites, Prelude No. 1 is my favourite. It is also the most famous. Each suite is divided into the following six movements: (some have slight name variations depending on the suite)

1. Prelude
2. Allemande
3. Courante
4. Carabande
5. Galanteries
6. Gigue

Cello Suite No. 1 - Prelude

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Post Options Post Options   Quote King Kang of Mu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2008 at 17:26
Originally posted by Knights

I couldn't resist listening to those Rach. and Chopin links you gave. I love Rach's Piano Concerto No. 2 - it is so beautiful. Nocturne and Fantasie Impromptu are favourites as well.

As I said earlier in the thread, one of my favourite works is Bach's Cello Suites. Of the 6  suites, Prelude No. 1 is my favourite. It is also the most famous. Each suite is divided into the following six movements: (some have slight name variations depending on the suite)

1. Prelude
2. Allemande
3. Courante
4. Carabande
5. Galanteries
6. Gigue

Cello Suite No. 1 - Prelude
 
Yeah, Yo Yo Ma playing that was the second Classical album I ever bought for myself.   I was like 5th or 6 th grade.  Still, one of my favorite of all time, the first love if I may, especially No. 1 the one you linked.  Nothing fills a room like Cello.
 
But you being the one man dynasty of all the AE tournaments and competitions, may I digress into Rostropovich vs Yo Yo Ma vs Cascals vs Maisky? 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
What you think?  I would assume you posted Rostropovich for a reason.   And Cascals and Rostropovich will always be number 1 and 2, whoever is 1.   And I love Maisky too, flawless.  But I must admit that me having spent my childhood in Korea and Yo Yo Ma being the most successful(?) Classical musician from Asia, not only I am subconsciously biased despite my meager conscious effort to be unbiased, but my ears have been trained into Yo Yo Ma's already for long time.
 
But Yo Yo Ma definitely brings different approach to it.  Some critics would say all his contrasts and stretched notes are emotionalism and contemporary commercialism, and I hear what they are saying.  But to my Yo Yo Ma trained ears Rostropovich almost too serious that I feel chased and uneasy, by the time the peak comes I am already tired whereas in Yo Yo Ma's I am so ready to climeb that peak.  Please don't take that as knock on Rostropovich, though.  Coltane can make me feel chased and uneasy and Kenny G can chill me out to death too.LOL 
 
Watching Cascals is like watching Jackie Gleason playing Minnesota Fats in The Hustler, effortlessly effective( The Hustler (1 of 2) - "Fats vs Eddie, Game 1 ... ) which only comes with age and wisdom.  Yo Yo Ma puts great effots to get there.  Cascals is there. 
 
And I love Maisky and say he's flawless because I hear the least amount of his personality seeping through the music.   
 
That is what is so great about Classical music though, it seems that they play same old piece over and over and over, but they are all different expressions depends on who when and where it is played.  Of course, you must earn the right to express yourself by achieving the technical perfection first.  Just a minor chore.   
 
I tried to digress into one of those VS post, but the fact is, I love them all.  I am in the presence of the Masters. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Illirac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2008 at 17:49
 Another I like is the Orpheus in the Underworld by Offenbach


Edited by Illirac - 14-Dec-2008 at 17:54
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2008 at 23:56
Originally posted by King Kang of Mu

 
Yeah, Yo Yo Ma playing that was the second Classical album I ever bought for myself.   I was like 5th or 6 th grade.  Still, one of my favorite of all time, the first love if I may, especially No. 1 the one you linked.  Nothing fills a room like Cello.
 
But you being the one man dynasty of all the AE tournaments and competitions, may I digress into Rostropovich vs Yo Yo Ma vs Cascals vs Maisky? 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
What you think?  I would assume you posted Rostropovich for a reason.   And Cascals and Rostropovich will always be number 1 and 2, whoever is 1.   And I love Maisky too, flawless.  But I must admit that me having spent my childhood in Korea and Yo Yo Ma being the most successful(?) Classical musician from Asia, not only I am subconsciously biased despite my meager conscious effort to be unbiased, but my ears have been trained into Yo Yo Ma's already for long time.
 
But Yo Yo Ma definitely brings different approach to it.  Some critics would say all his contrasts and stretched notes are emotionalism and contemporary commercialism, and I hear what they are saying.  But to my Yo Yo Ma trained ears Rostropovich almost too serious that I feel chased and uneasy, by the time the peak comes I am already tired whereas in Yo Yo Ma's I am so ready to climeb that peak.  Please don't take that as knock on Rostropovich, though.  Coltane can make me feel chased and uneasy and Kenny G can chill me out to death too.LOL 
 
Watching Cascals is like watching Jackie Gleason playing Minnesota Fats in The Hustler, effortlessly effective( The Hustler (1 of 2) - "Fats vs Eddie, Game 1 ... ) which only comes with age and wisdom.  Yo Yo Ma puts great effots to get there.  Cascals is there. 
 
And I love Maisky and say he's flawless because I hear the least amount of his personality seeping through the music.   
 
That is what is so great about Classical music though, it seems that they play same old piece over and over and over, but they are all different expressions depends on who when and where it is played.  Of course, you must earn the right to express yourself by achieving the technical perfection first.  Just a minor chore.   
 
I tried to digress into one of those VS post, but the fact is, I love them all.  I am in the presence of the Masters. 


I'm happy to digress into versus Smile

But, as you said, it is hard to compare such masters. For me it comes down to bias - what I first listened to had the effect of imprinting the model expression of Prelude. For this reason I posted Rostropovich. He cops a lot of slack on youtube by commenters who curse his higher-tempo rendition, along with other whining complaints. To me though, The high-tempo evokes more emotion along the meandering lead-up to the climax. Rostropovich plays with such ease and beauty.

Yo Yo Ma's version of Prelude is nevertheless brilliant in my eyes. The way he utilises tempo rubato is fantastic, especially for a popular audience. It diversifies the piece and makes the climax more epic, in a way. Playing in a lower key as he does, suits the slightly slower, varied nature of Ma's version.

When I talk about these pieces and musicians, I sometimes find it hard to best convey my attitudes and thoughts - hence the long spiel.


On another note (excuse the pun) - the transitional music of Debussy is very interesting. Clair de Lune was one of the first pieces I got in to. I love both the orchestral and solo piano variations of the piece, depending on the mood, but tend to prefer the orchestral.

Claude Debussy - Clair de Lune (orchestral)

Claude Debussy - Clair de Lune (piano)


Regards,

- Knights -



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Post Options Post Options   Quote Siege Tower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2008 at 02:20
It would be a shame to not to mention the Carman fantasies by Pablo de Sarasate, a wonderful series of catchy tunes perfect for beginners to appreciate classical music.



Edited by Siege Tower - 15-Dec-2008 at 02:21
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Post Options Post Options   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2008 at 18:28
I love classical music and one of my favorites is Holt's Planet and Pictures at an Exihbition by a famouse Russian composer whose name I cannot recall at this moment. The latter I saw performed at Whitman College in Walla Walla, Washington.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2008 at 19:29
Tchiakovsky is one of my favorites, alongside Beethoven. Russian composers in general have a certain vigor.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Illirac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2008 at 19:33
Originally posted by eaglecap

Russian composer whose name I cannot recall at this moment. 

Mussorgsky!

Another good by him is the Night on bald mountain


Edited by Illirac - 15-Dec-2008 at 19:34
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Post Options Post Options   Quote King Kang of Mu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2008 at 04:42
Originally posted by Knights


I'm happy to digress into versus Smile

But, as you said, it is hard to compare such masters. For me it comes down to bias - what I first listened to had the effect of imprinting the model expression of Prelude. For this reason I posted Rostropovich. He cops a lot of slack on youtube by commenters who curse his higher-tempo rendition, along with other whining complaints. To me though, The high-tempo evokes more emotion along the meandering lead-up to the climax. Rostropovich plays with such ease and beauty.

Yo Yo Ma's version of Prelude is nevertheless brilliant in my eyes. The way he utilises tempo rubato is fantastic, especially for a popular audience. It diversifies the piece and makes the climax more epic, in a way. Playing in a lower key as he does, suits the slightly slower, varied nature of Ma's version.

When I talk about these pieces and musicians, I sometimes find it hard to best convey my attitudes and thoughts - hence the long spiel.


On another note (excuse the pun) - the transitional music of Debussy is very interesting. Clair de Lune was one of the first pieces I got in to. I love both the orchestral and solo piano variations of the piece, depending on the mood, but tend to prefer the orchestral.

Claude Debussy - Clair de Lune (orchestral)

Claude Debussy - Clair de Lune (piano)


Regards,

- Knights -


 
It's great that we can both admit our biasednesses(is that a word?) and it only adds to our understanding of each other, instead of resentment.  And I totally empathies with your occational frustration conveying your thought on music because I feel the same way.   But What is so great about having an aesthetic discussion is that by its very own nature, we are talking about something beautiful.  And the Beauty often disarm us from ourselves when we need her the most.      
 
Even before I read your post the blue Debussy links stuck out the screen and I smiled right away.  Of course you knew Debussy is one of my favorite also.  Both links were great.  At first look though I thought the conductor was Eugene Ormandy at old age for a second, and then the footage looked too recent to him.
 
I used to fall aleep to 'La Mer' every night for weeks at a time. 
 
 
 
"From dawn to noon on the sea" or "From dawn to midday on the sea" - very slowly (B minor)
 
"Play of the waves" or "Play of waves" - allegro (C sharp minor)
 
"Dialogue of the wind and the sea" or "Dialogue between wind and waves" - animated and tumultuous (C sharp minor)
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2008 at 05:37
Originally posted by King Kang of Mu

It's great that we can both admit our biasednesses(is that a word?) and it only adds to our understanding of each other, instead of resentment.  And I totally empathies with your occational frustration conveying your thought on music because I feel the same way.   But What is so great about having an aesthetic discussion is that by its very own nature, we are talking about something beautiful.  And the Beauty often disarm us from ourselves when we need her the most.      
 
Even before I read your post the blue Debussy links stuck out the screen and I smiled right away.  Of course you knew Debussy is one of my favorite also.  Both links were great.  At first look though I thought the conductor was Eugene Ormandy at old age for a second, and then the footage looked too recent to him.
 
I used to fall aleep to 'La Mer' every night for weeks at a time. 
 
"From dawn to noon on the sea" or "From dawn to midday on the sea" - very slowly (B minor)
 
"Play of the waves" or "Play of waves" - allegro (C sharp minor)
 
"Dialogue of the wind and the sea" or "Dialogue between wind and waves" - animated and tumultuous (C sharp minor)
 
 


Exactly - I see nothing wrong with our biases influencing our judgments when discussing music.

Ah yes - Debussy. A most amazing impressionist composer. Arguably one of the twentieth century's best. Clair de Lune is my favourite of his. I was glad to hear that you enjoy Debussy also. I have not consciously listened to La Mer before, so I listened to those links you gave. It is magnificent. In the end, I put my Blue Planet DVD on and played La Mer Mvt#2 in the background. Spectacular stuff.

It was interesting to read on the La Mer wiki article that it had a fairly poor reception when premiered, because of public disapproval of Claude's personal affairs. However, it's now seen as one of the foremost orchestral works of that century.

On another note, you mentioned you have been listening to Erik Satie lately. I realised I have his Gymnopedies on my computer. Gymnopedie No.1 is my favourite - it's rather slow pace has an ethereal feel to it, and almost physically slows down your thoughts and movements. Maybe its just psychological. Either way, I like it.

I'll end with this - another of my all-time favourite classical pieces.

Adagietto from Symphony No.5 1/2 - Mahler

Adagietto from Symphony No. 5
2/2 - Mahler

Regards,

- Knights -


Edited by Knights - 16-Dec-2008 at 05:38

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