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Forum LockedChristobal Colon and his crew

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Majkes View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Majkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Christobal Colon and his crew
    Posted: 17-Feb-2007 at 06:12

How Colon got on with his crew. He was an Italian. His crew mainly Spanish I suppose. I know that those languages are very close but did he have a translator. Do we know something about him?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frederick Roger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2007 at 06:32

He spoke Castillan or Portuguese. As simple as that.



Edited by Frederick Roger - 17-Feb-2007 at 06:32
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2007 at 10:51
There is a suggestion that his parents were Spanish. Apparently he always wrote in Spanish, even writing to his family (and even writing to Italy).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2007 at 11:07
Columbus was not Italian. Many think he was Catalan and others Portuguese. Perhaps he could have Jewish roots, but he certainly was a mainstream fellow between the sailors of the Atlantic. There is no evidence he ever wrote in Italian. He wrote directly in Spanish and historians preserve his log, which has been published as a book. There is no clue he was foreigner at all.
 
He was an experienced captain so he must have being doing well with its crew.
 
Pinguin
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DocStaph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2007 at 13:02
OH is the colon named after this gentelmen. I wondered where the name colong in reference to human intestines generated from..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2007 at 13:32

His real name was Cristobal Colon and, no matter how much has been downplayed lately by some, he is central to Hispanic culture and the spread of the Catholic faith.

That's what matters.

Monument to Columbus in Dominican Republic:
 
El%20Faro%20by%20Otto%20Piron%7d
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Majkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2007 at 08:47
That's vaery interesting what You are saying Pinguin. I've laways thought He was Italian from Genoa.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leonardo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2007 at 08:48
Obviuosly Pinguin is wrong, everybody knows that Cristoforo Colombo was Italian Big%20smile
 
About his claimed jewiness I have heard something too. Simon Wiesenthal wrote a book about this stuff, if I remember it correct ...
 
 
 
 
 
 
The house of Columbus in Genoa:
Immagine:Genova-casa%20di%20Colombo-DSCF7114.JPG
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frederick Roger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2007 at 09:08
Actually, Cristoforo Colombo was Italian. The problem is that Cristoforo Colombo did not discover America. In fact, he probably never left Italy.
 
Cristobal Colon, on the other hand, still has his origins enshrowded in mystery. However, I think we can all agree he was not Italian, as his son Hernando discovered.  
 
BTW, here is his statue in his supposed portuguese birthplace, the village of Cuba:
 
 
Not as big as the one in Republica Dominicana, but hey, it's a small town...


Edited by Frederick Roger - 18-Feb-2007 at 09:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2007 at 09:28
Yes, the myth of an Italian Colon is gone.
 
Sorry Italian community in the United States. LOL
 
Columbus (better: Colon) was as Spanish as Queen Isabel or the Cid.
 
Pinguin


Edited by pinguin - 18-Feb-2007 at 09:29
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leonardo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2007 at 11:27
Also the Spanish wikipedia admits that the most probable origin of Columbus was the genoese one:  "Su origen más probable es genovés (aunque algunos historiadores sostienen que procedía del Reino de Aragón, del Reino de Galicia o del Reino de Portugal, entre otros)." (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crist%C3%B3bal_Col%C3%B3n)
 
About his language:

"Although Genoese documents have been found about a weaver named Colombo, it has also been noted that, in the preserved documents, Columbus wrote almost exclusively in Spanish, and that he used the language, with Portuguese or Catalan phonetics, even when writing personal notes to himself, to his brother, Italian friends, and to the Bank of Genoa. His two brothers were woolweavers from Genoa and also wrote in Spanish.

There is a small handwritten Genoese gloss in an Italian edition of Pliny's Natural History that he read on his second voyage to America. However, it displays both Spanish and Portuguese influences. Genoese Italian was not a written language in the 15th century. There is also a note in non-Genoese Italian in his own Book of Prophecies exhibiting, according to historian August Kling, "characteristics of northern Italian humanism in its calligraphy, syntax, and spelling." Columbus took great care and pride in writing this form of Italian.

Latin, on the other hand, was the language of scholarship, and here Columbus excelled. He also kept his journal in Latin, and a "secret" journal in Greek. "

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2007 at 11:39
Spaniards don't worry too much. They know Columbus was an employee of the crown. The discovery of the Americas it was a Spanish achievement, even if Columbus were foreigner. But columbus was not foreigner.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Majkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2007 at 13:13
Well guys can You writ some proofs that He was Spanish or Portugese because for now He is belived to be an Italian by most of people.
I understand one of proofs is that He wrote in Spanish not Latin what is strange for me I admit but do You have more proofs?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Top Gun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2007 at 13:24
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Columbus was not Italian. Many think he was Catalan and others Portuguese. Perhaps he could have Jewish roots, but he certainly was a mainstream fellow between the sailors of the Atlantic. There is no evidence he ever wrote in Italian. He wrote directly in Spanish and historians preserve his log, which has been published as a book. There is no clue he was foreigner at all.
 
He was an experienced captain so he must have being doing well with its crew.
 
Pinguin
 
 
there are clues of that he was an foreigner because his brother wrote it
 
and he was 100% jewish
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leonardo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2007 at 13:46
Originally posted by Majkes Majkes wrote:

I understand one of proofs is that He wrote in Spanish not Latin
 
 
Probably you mean Italian ... It's not strange at all that he wrote mainly in Spanish, after all he spent almost all his life in Spain and Portugal ...
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2007 at 19:22
Logical. If columbus was born in Iberia he has to expend all his life in there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Feb-2007 at 03:42
One of the legends is that he was born on the boat taking his Jewish/Christian convert (Marranos) parents from Spain to Genoa to escape the growing persecution of Marranos.
 
I don't know what that would make him.
 
Except confused.


Edited by gcle2003 - 19-Feb-2007 at 04:00
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Feb-2007 at 07:36
It's pretty much commonly accepted he was Genoese (outside the Spanish- and Portuguese-speaking world, apparently). No failsafe proof has ever been uncovered that tells about his origins though. Just going around claiming that he certainly was this or that will not convince anyone.
 
 
 
*that he wrote to his son in Spanish is in no way a proof.  For example, I know alquite a few immigrant parents that only speaks (broken) Swedish to their children so they can integrate better. And that his logs were in Spanish is even more ridiculous to use as a proof - he was employed by the Spanish crown.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mixcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Feb-2007 at 22:56
AFAIK most serious historians do not question the fact that he was born in Genoa.

And he did write in Spanish, but it was at times broken and influenced by Portuguese, making clear that Spanish was not his native language. Some people think that because of this he was Galician (the Galician language being inbetween Spanish and Portuguese) but where Galician and Portuguese differ he always used Portuguese forms.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Top Gun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Feb-2007 at 09:06

s



Edited by Top Gun - 20-Feb-2007 at 13:02
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