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Forum LockedChina will start to transfer JF-17 to Pakistan

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    Posted: 11-May-2006 at 11:22

click here for informations.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/242808/thread/1147357409/last -1147359465/JF-17%92s+test+flight+successful

JF-17 for pakistan

 

cockpit for pakistan version JF-17

 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bigtoothbrush Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-May-2006 at 10:55

Finally , Pakistan has decided to purchase J-10

http://jang.com.pk/thenews/apr2006-daily/03-04-2006/main/mai n8.htm

By Muhammad Saleh Zaafir

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan has decided to purchase state-of-the-art Chinese F-10 (Jian-10) multi-role fighter-cum-bomber planes while the decision pertaining to purchase of US made ultra modern F-16 planes would be made in July next.

Meanwhile Moscow has signalled to Pakistan that like the US, it could also de-hyphenate its ties with Pakistan and India. As a result of this change in thinking, Pakistan could also go for Russian made planes for the Pakistan Air Force (PAF).

The first batch of high-profile JF/Thunder-17 aircraft jointly being manufactured by Pakistan and China will be ready for induction early next year, ahead of the schedule. These planes would be flying in the same year in the skies of Pakistan and China as part of their respective air forces. Air Chief Marshal Tanveer Mahmood Ahmad Chief of the Air Staff will visit China shortly to inspect the project. It will be his first foreign trip as the Air Chief.

Highly placed defence production sources revealed to The News here the other day that Federal Secretary for Defence Production Lt Gen Ali Jan Orakzaie who had gone to China last month has now returned to Islamabad after an extremely fruitful visit. He was tasked by President Musharraf with exploring the possibilities of acquiring the high-tech planes and other weaponry systems for the three services preferably with transfer of technology basis.

During his visit to China in February this year, President General Pervez Musharraf was shown the F-10 (also called as J-10 or Jian-10) considered to be the Chinese most secret flying machine. He was the first foreign dignitary/head of the state who chanced to see the demonstration of the multi-role fighter. It is the part of Chinese fourth generation fighter programme which sent waves of worry in India. Indian sources used to say that the programme had the collaboration of Pakistan, Israel, Russia, France and Italy. The rumour based Indian speculation was never owned or denied by the Chinese who love to maintain their peculiar style. The Indians used to say that Israeli input was visible on design while electronics and weapon technology had the mark of French assistance. The F-10 also has the similarities with Israel's Lavi fighter, but predominantly it has the edge like Russian Sukhoi Su-30 MK multi-role aircraft that has in some aspects outsmarted the US made F-16. Russians have supplied 100 such planes to China recently for induction in Peoples Chinese Air Force (PCAF).

Sources indicated that F-10 are the aircraft of the new century and they have recently been rolled out. No one knows the number and positioning of the planes as Chinese kept the secret close to their chest till now considering it as their secret weapon. With an understanding about provision of the planes to Pakistan, Beijing has unveiled it since the plane in question would fly for the first time out of the air frontiers of China. The Chinese engineers and scientists are still working to improve it further. Pakistan has decided to buy in first stance two squadrons of these planes. The mode of supply and price would be worked out through the system both the countries have. Secretary defence production has confirmed Pakistan's intention of buying the J-10 aircraft.

In another related development Pakistan has planned to buy US made F-16 in less number and in all likelihood the number would be cut to half of what Islamabad had initially planned to purchase. Pakistan had made up its mind to buy 55 brand new F-16, but now the number which Pakistan is expected to ask is 25 while 30 used planes will be bought from sources that the United States will identify. The second-hand planes will be later upgraded by the Americans and they could be provided by the US Air Force (USAF) or from any third country, the sources added.

F-16 are considered to be a passion of the PAF since they were the first high-tech flying machines that were inducted in its fleet. Pakistan had made up its mind to buy 75 new F-16 last year. The matter was at its final stage and the required legislation was about to be tabled in the US Congress for facilitation of the supply, but the devastating earthquake of October 8 last year forced Pakistan to request shelving the plan for the time being and Pakistan requested the US to keep the matter pending.

Meanwhile Pakistan is also eying the Russian defence production market. When President General Pervez Musharaf visited Moscow in February 2003, the Russians offered to Pakistan choppers but the deal could not materialize for certain reasons and now Islamabad has received positive signals from Moscow that could encourage it to buy some Russian planes. The Russian technology is very close to that being used by the Chinese and it would not be a difficult proposition for Pakistan to maintain such a system if Russians agree to supply Pakistan, the sources hinted. The Russian defence products are comparatively cheaper than the Western products.

Sources said that Islamabad and Moscow have started making contacts to initiate cooperation in the field of defence in some way. The Russians stakes are high in the case of defence supplies for the Indians but ever since New Delhi has opted to go in Washington's orbit in a big way, Moscow is considering Pakistan's request favourably, the sources added.

 

pakistan already diceided to purchase two types of new chinese fighters. i think the next step they will order some L-15 trainers for these fighters' training supplement. chinese L-15 is one of the most advanced trainers in the world.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-May-2006 at 13:17

How close is the pak-sino military relationship, i know they are pretty close politically.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bigtoothbrush Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-May-2006 at 18:27
very close too. china has been supplying weapons to pakistan from planes, missiles, ships to armor vehicles. we also cooperate with them to start pakistan's indigenous war industry. like the JF-17 and Al-Khalid programms, pakisatn produces some chinese weapons under licence. that's very helpful for their future war industry development.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TeldeInduz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 06:29

JF-17 cockpit is looking much better now

 

The old design

JF-17 Thunder - FC-1 Super 7 cockpit 

 

New design

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TeldeInduz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 06:39

Looks a bit like the Grippen cockpit.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TeldeInduz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 07:12

Sources said that Islamabad and Moscow have started making contacts to initiate cooperation in the field of defence in some way. The Russians stakes are high in the case of defence supplies for the Indians but ever since New Delhi has opted to go in Washington's orbit in a big way, Moscow is considering Pakistan's request favourably, the sources added.

Interesting how this could turn out too.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anujkhamar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 08:01
Originally posted by TeldeInduz TeldeInduz wrote:

Sources said that Islamabad and Moscow have started making contacts to initiate cooperation in the field of defence in some way. The Russians stakes are high in the case of defence supplies for the Indians but ever since New Delhi has opted to go in Washington's orbit in a big way, Moscow is considering Pakistan's request favourably, the sources added.

Interesting how this could turn out too.



it's true, it may have taken exactly 20 years for a complete switch around of allies. That really makes things interesting to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 08:58
The russians wont give up india, the defence ties are to deep. They'll sell to both to make up fro the increased competion the USA will give them in your defence market Anujkhamar. Its just become open season in south asia weapons market.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bigtoothbrush Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2006 at 07:05

the old design cockpit of JF-17 is not chinese products, but imported from western countries by pakistan. actually there was a bifurcation between china and pakistan. pakistan wanna use western avionics on chinese plane, while china insist on equiping them with chinese avionics. chinese companies won the order form finally thus you see the new cockpit. but the whole JF-17 programm got delayed. it should get into service in pakistan air force before 2004. 

JF-17 is an export product, pakistan air force offered half of outlay for its R&D. chinese aviatic industry benefited from this kind of programm though our air force wouldn't equip them. now, china is the only asian country that could independently research and manufacture advanced fighter jet. specially aeroengine, china is 10 years ahead of any asian country in this area. we are the only country in asia and one of five countries in the world(america, russia, britain, france and china) that could independently produce upper t/w ratio 8 class turbofan.

pakistan's j-10 will use chinese ws-10a turbofan, which has a TVC nozzle. while JF-17 will use ws-13 turbofan.     

ws-10 and its TVC nozzle 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TeldeInduz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2006 at 08:39
Originally posted by bigtoothbrush bigtoothbrush wrote:

the old design cockpit of JF-17 is not chinese products, but imported from western countries by pakistan. actually there was a bifurcation between china and pakistan. pakistan wanna use western avionics on chinese plane, while china insist on equiping them with chinese avionics. chinese companies won the order form finally thus you see the new cockpit. but the whole JF-17 programm got delayed. it should get into service in pakistan air force before 2004. 

The old design I'm pretty sure included the Grifo-7 radar, but this failed to meet the requirements of PAF and as it turned out the KLJ radars did. I think the radar is different, but there seems to be a lot of other differences between the old and new cockpit. Have you got any information on the radar for JF-17?

Quote

JF-17 is an export product, pakistan air force offered half of outlay for its R&D. chinese aviatic industry benefited from this kind of programm though our air force wouldn't equip them. now, china is the only asian country that could independently research and manufacture advanced fighter jet. specially aeroengine, china is 10 years ahead of any asian country in this area. we are the only country in asia and one of five countries in the world(america, russia, britain, france and china) that could independently produce upper t/w ratio 8 class turbofan.

JF-17 is an export product for both Pakistan and China as far as I know (I think both get half the royalties for it). Pakistan I think is inducting 150 into its force and there was rumour of China inducting 200 (though obviously J-10 is going to be the main one).

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pakistan's j-10 will use chinese ws-10a turbofan, which has a TVC nozzle. while JF-17 will use ws-13 turbofan.     

ws-10 and its TVC nozzle 

 

TVC is a good feature on J-10. There were rumours it might have some stealth technology on upgraded J-10s? It might be possible to also put TVC onto JF-17 in the end.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bigtoothbrush Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2006 at 12:35

it's reported that JF-17 04 prototype's nose has been enlarged to make sure it could hold 660mm radar antenna. the new radar could be more powerful than Grifo-7 which has 600mm antenna. and it should be a chinese radar since pakistan already ordered chinese SD-10 AAM for BVR warfare. however i'm not sure which type radar it is.

yeah, you are right, pakistan could get half of the benefit from exportation JF-17 which manufactured by product line that set in pakistan. actually chinese air force don't want JF-17 such light class fighter. but for reducing the per unit cost, they may get 200 of this plane. and the government have to pay for this, air force could get these planes for free. even if so, the air force is unhappy coz they still have to pay for interrelated facilities. they only want j-10. they like big fighter. lol

stealth J-10? probably not. but both 601 institution(the number one aerostat research institution in china) and 611 institution(the one offered j-10 and JF-17) have been researching next generation stealth fighters and they will compete for intent from air force and navy.

 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2006 at 00:28
I think the Pakistani version, the one which is going to be produced in Kamra is going to be quite different from the Chinese version. I belive eventually both countrys get royalties only for their own product.
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