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Forum LockedCaucasian Abania - Ancestors of Azeris?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2009 at 20:53
I think I already said by myself that they were influenced by Caucasian culture. But they are not complitely culturaly Caucasians.
 
They were influenced by Caucasian culture in a way that Ottoman Turks were influenced by Iranian culture, the latter didn't make them Iranians.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2009 at 21:35
i never implied that anyways....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2009 at 21:37
Then we misunderstood each other.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2009 at 21:47
yeah my point was that culture has got more to do with locality than with who you descend from...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2009 at 22:47
Quote Sarmat
I think I already said by myself that they were influenced by Caucasian culture. But they are not complitely culturaly Caucasians.
 
They were influenced by Caucasian culture in a way that Ottoman Turks were influenced by Iranian culture, the latter didn't make them Iranians.


There is no such thing as completely one or the other, Azeri Turks have aspects of Caucasian culture and aspects of Turkic culture and these have both influenced each other anyway.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2009 at 04:49
Most Azeri, though, identify themselves as Caucasian people first of all. Selfidentity is the key in my opinion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Emil_Diniyev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2009 at 13:31
No wonder there that we are Caucasian in culture then anything else.

Just look at the traditional Azeri soldier cloths.








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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Emil_Diniyev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2009 at 13:41
Originally posted by Bulldog Bulldog wrote:

To say Caucasian culture stems from Caucasian Albanians is an assumption as we don't really know their culture. .


Well, Bulldog maybe u should research more on Caucasian Albans.

They even know how they dressed. Wink

They also describe them as tall and light people. Its also has been proven that they were a North Caucasian people mostly, but some of their tribes could be South Caucasian (Georgian) too.

However about what Caucasian culture among Azeris stems from, i would say our northern neighbours Dagestan.

But there is no doubt that Kavkaz Albans are partly our forefathers. Its our national value and we really care about it much.

Also a answer to Armenians and Georgians when they claim that we are "foreigners".










Edited by Emil_Diniyev - 22-Apr-2009 at 13:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2009 at 13:45
Quote Sarmat
Most Azeri, though, identify themselves as Caucasian people first of all. Selfidentity is the key in my opinion.


Most? according to who. Firstly your making a mistake with identity, Caucasian is not an identity, its not a nation, being Qafqazli is a geographical term, Azeri is used interchangably with Turk, Azeri are Turks first of all, if you went there you would realise this.

Secondly, Turkic and Caucasian are not "alien" to each other, Turks have lived in the region for nearly two millenia, kept their language, culture and identity and ofcourse mixed with the other Caucasian peoples.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2009 at 13:47
The closest people to Udi and thus to Caucasian Albanians are exactly Dagestanis i.e. Lezgins. So, it's very natural that the Caucasian customs and culture of Azeris are very close to those of Dagestan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2009 at 14:05
Quote Emil
Just look at the traditional Azeri soldier cloths.


Yes look at them, the hat is a Kalpak which is a traditional Turkic hat, there's even a people called "Karakalpak", even in the Caucasus there are "Karapapaks". The vest is "yelek", a clothing rooted in traditional clothing of armed forces as heavy armour wasn't used by the forces on horseback.

Traditional Karakalpak

http://karakalpak.homestead.com/files/berdaq.jpg

Caucasus and Turkic have influenced each other alot, Karachay, Nogai, Karapapak, Azeri are Turkic and Caucasus, Caucasus people like Cherkez and Chechen have alot of ties with Turkic peoples culturally and historically, there is a strong feeling of friendship to a degree that some consider each other to be brother nations.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2009 at 14:07
Originally posted by Bulldog Bulldog wrote:


Most? according to who. Firstly your making a mistake with identity, Caucasian is not an identity, its not a nation, being Qafqazli is a geographical term, Azeri is used interchangably with Turk, Azeri are Turks first of all, if you went there you would realise this.
 
I'm not making a mistake dear Bulldog. "Caucasian" is a separate cultural, historical and in a sense ideological identity.
 
Though, perhaps, the only country that has a strong school of Caucasian anthropology is Russia. Caucasian culture is not very much known outside of Russia, with exception, perhaps, of Turkey and some Middle Eastern countries were Caucasian immigrants 
 
There are, in fact, many publications in Russia in the field of anthropology about the unique Caucasian mentality and "soul."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2009 at 14:21
Quote Sarmat
I'm not making a mistake dear Bulldog. "Caucasian" is a separate cultural, historical and in a sense ideological identity.
 
Though, perhaps, the only country that has a strong school of Caucasian anthropology is Russia. Caucasian culture is not very much known outside of Russia, with exception, perhaps, of Turkey and some Middle Eastern countries were Caucasian immigrants


One can be Caucasian and Turkic if you belong to a Turkic group of the Caucasus, Karachay, Nogay, Balkar, Karapapak, Azeri Turk etc you can be both at once, there is a strong Turkic identity, Azerbaycan is a centre of pan-Turkism but also there are alot of ties with the other Caucasus people. Especially during the late Ottoman era and Russian expansion the two people became very close, for example there are thought to be millions of descendants of Cherkez, Chechen, Abkhaza, Karachay, Nogay etc in Turkey today due to that period.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Emil_Diniyev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2009 at 14:29
....................





Edited by Emil_Diniyev - 22-Apr-2009 at 18:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Emil_Diniyev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2009 at 14:31
Originally posted by Bulldog Bulldog wrote:

Quote Emil
Just look at the traditional Azeri soldier cloths.


Yes look at them, the hat is a Kalpak which is a traditional Turkic hat, there's even a people called "Karakalpak", even in the Caucasus there are "Karapapaks". The vest is "yelek", a clothing rooted in traditional clothing of armed forces as heavy armour wasn't used by the forces on horseback.

Traditional Karakalpak

http://karakalpak.homestead.com/files/berdaq.jpg




Sorry but i don't see similiarity. Ouch

The hat is also very different.

We call our hat as Papak.


Edited by Emil_Diniyev - 22-Apr-2009 at 18:46
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2009 at 15:07
Originally posted by Bulldog Bulldog wrote:

Azerbaycan is a centre of pan-Turkism
 
I always thought that the center of pan-Turkism is the Republic of Turkey.
 
Originally posted by Bulldog Bulldog wrote:

  but also there are alot of ties with the other Caucasus people. Especially during the late Ottoman era and Russian expansion the two people became very close, for example there are thought to be millions of descendants of Cherkez, Chechen, Abkhaza, Karachay, Nogay etc in Turkey today due to that period.

 
Yes, but this is not the point of this discussion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2009 at 19:45
Diniyev, Papak is another word for Kalpak, the hat is made from the wool of Karakul rams which are famously reared in Astrakhan and Central Asian regions which is why there are similar hats.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2009 at 19:47
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I always thought that the center of pan-Turkism is the Republic of Turkey.


Today or historically? today Turkey, Azerbaycan and Kazakistan are the biggest supporters of some Turkic union, historically, Tatars and Azeri Turks were among the first and most active groups.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2009 at 19:56
Originally posted by Bulldog Bulldog wrote:

Diniyev, Papak is another word for Kalpak, the hat is made from the wool of Karakul rams which are famously reared in Astrakhan and Central Asian regions which is why there are similar hats.




Kalpaks exist in different variations, for example the Turkmen Kalpak looks different than the Qaraqalpaq one.
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