History Community ~ All Empires Homepage


This is the Archive on WORLD Historia, the old original forum.

 You cannot post here - you can only read.

 

Here is the link to the new forum:

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Forum LockedCatholic church slams new teaching code which woul

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 7>
Poll Question: Does the British government have the moral right...
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
2 [11.76%]
7 [41.18%]
8 [47.06%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted

Author
eaglecap View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar

Joined: 15-Feb-2005
Location: DesertSouthwest
Status: Offline
Points: 3264
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Catholic church slams new teaching code which woul
    Posted: 02-Mar-2009 at 19:07
Catholic church slams new teaching code which would force Christian schools to actively promote Islam

Even though I do not agree with this Britain does not have the same Constitional protection against religious interference by the government that the USA has- First Amendment.

I still do not agree with forcing a religion to compromise their beliefs. This could backfire on many Islamic schools who also would be forced to teach about homosexuality and in a manner dictated by the state. I can only believe it is wrong and immoral but that is in Britain.
Could it happen here- possibly!!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1158406/Catholic-Church-slams-new-code-conduct-forcing-teachers-promote-Islam-gay-rights.html?ITO=1490#
Well then, brothers and fellow citizens and soldiers, remember this in order that your memorial, your fame and freedom will be eternal.
Back to Top
es_bih View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar
Beglerbeg

Joined: 20-Dec-2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3426
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2009 at 01:27
I am curious why you chose to "promoting Islam" as your opening sentence, other than to get attention.

But to the article:


Originally posted by code of conduct of teachers code of conduct of teachers wrote:

Principle 4 of the code demands that teachers ‘proactively challenge discrimination’ and ‘promote equality and value diversity in all their professional relationships and interactions’ before they can be registered.

‘This anxiety extends similarly to the direction to “promote equality”,’ Miss Stannard said.

If a teacher was asked at interview if he or she was willing to use materials designed by gay rights groups, the teacher could be rejected for declining because he or she would be in breach of Principle 4.

If a pupil asked an RE teacher if Jesus Christ was the only means to salvation and the teacher replied yes, a non-Christian parent could complain to the GTC over a breach of Principle 4.


I can't say that I disagree with this... All it is is telling teachers that they can't discriminate...

Yes Christian, Jewish, Islamic, and other religious based schools should teach common-sense courses about homosexuality. In that they should not actively promote it as this code of conduct doesn't even ask them to do that... but they shouldn't tell little Timmy that "all fags will burn in hell" either if he asks the teacher what a homosexual is.... same goes for other faiths... they should say this is what we believe (and sate who the group is that they or the majority of the children and the teacher belong to), but there are beliefs that believe in this....

This isn't actively promoting it... and yes all religious based schools should promote equality, a fair understanding of homosexuality, rather than teaching the kids to be some sort of homophobic (that causes real life problems in real life i.e. the kid being conditioned actively that these people are wrong and causing them problems in the long run)

You don't have to say that you don't believe the Jesus is the way, you can say, for me or for me as a evangelical it is true, but in other faiths it is not....

All you are doing is being respectful while keeping your beliefs.





Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 06-Dec-2004
Location: Luxembourg
Status: Offline
Points: 7011
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2009 at 11:18
Thirty odd years ago I and a collaborator wrote a school textbook (aimed at 16-16 year-olds) covering various religions and their beliefs. That was shortly after the Archbishop of York called for more teaching of comparative religion in schools, and the book was successful with religious education teachers.
 
What's very sad is that people are now so sensitised to the subject that they can conceivably see that as wrong. And that it would need a state diktat to force people to accept that other people don't believe the same that they do, and are none the worse for it.
 
PS: Does the British government have the moral right to do what? I voted yes assuming the question was 'Does the British government have the moral right to insist children are infomred about other religions than their own?'
 


Edited by gcle2003 - 03-Mar-2009 at 11:21
Citizen of Ankh-Morpork
Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984.
Back to Top
es_bih View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar
Beglerbeg

Joined: 20-Dec-2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3426
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2009 at 13:49
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

Thirty odd years ago I and a collaborator wrote a school textbook (aimed at 16-16 year-olds) covering various religions and their beliefs. That was shortly after the Archbishop of York called for more teaching of comparative religion in schools, and the book was successful with religious education teachers.
 
What's very sad is that people are now so sensitised to the subject that they can conceivably see that as wrong. And that it would need a state diktat to force people to accept that other people don't believe the same that they do, and are none the worse for it.
 
PS: Does the British government have the moral right to do what? I voted yes assuming the question was 'Does the British government have the moral right to insist children are infomred about other religions than their own?'
 


True such tings should be common sense, but them imposing it - they didn't make it easier for you to force "gays" or "Hinduism" or "Islam" or "Judaism" etc... onto people, but it gives these kids a chance to learn about other belief systems and life styles, which will do wonders as to them not growing up "sheltered." Like I said little Timmy would rather benefit from hearing a balanced answer to what a homosexual is than from Pastor Don telling him that they are the people who burn in hell. First Amendment rights eaglecap are for free speech, not free bigotry - these schools private or public are paid for by people - either patrons or through taxes.



Back to Top
Paul View Drop Down
Editorial Staff
Editorial Staff
Avatar
AE Immoderator

Joined: 21-Aug-2004
Location: Hyperborea
Status: Offline
Points: 965
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2009 at 16:59
I went to a catholic school. All I can remember is it being indoctrinated in students by all teachers that all other religions are wrong. They did however occaisionally teach other religions but always the teacher would explain why they are incorrect as part of the lesson.
 
I don't think it has anything to do with 'moral' right, but 'intelligent' right. The British government is obliged to promote intelligence and freethinking in schools, anythink else is sactioning child abuse. If not by what right do these schools believe they deserve money from the mostly secular taxpayers of the country?
 


Edited by Paul - 03-Mar-2009 at 17:01
Light blue touch paper and stand well back

http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk

http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk
Back to Top
edgewaters View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 13-Mar-2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 2396
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2009 at 17:47
I don't think religions should be competing to win over children, the whole "get em while they're young and impressionable" idea leaves a bad taste in my mouth. If you're going to do religion with youngsters, at least let them all be on an equal footing so they can decide for themselves. Even better - leave it out of education altogether, and let them adopt or reject as they will when they are old enough to make informed decisions.
Back to Top
Menumorut View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 02-Jun-2006
Location: Romania
Status: Offline
Points: 1116
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Menumorut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2009 at 19:31
Originally posted by edgewaters edgewaters wrote:

I don't think religions should be competing to win over children, the whole "get em while they're young and impressionable" idea leaves a bad taste in my mouth. If you're going to do religion with youngsters, at least let them all be on an equal footing so they can decide for themselves. Even better - leave it out of education altogether, and let them adopt or reject as they will when they are old enough to make informed decisions.



I think that creationist and matetrialist theories should be presented to children as two options of belief, equally possible to represent the truth. And by that I mean that all the natural laws, everything in chemistry and physics to be presented as possible illusions, because if there is a Creator, He is the cause of all things, not some natural interactions.

As for religions, if a religion offer moral ideas, it should be presented to children. Else, is pure indoctrination. And for that reason some religions should be, I consider, forbidden, not only in schools but in every way, like satanism and other that produce alienation of human being.

Back to Top
Dolphin View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Níl a fhios agam cad ata ag tharlu

Joined: 06-Feb-2007
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 1554
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2009 at 19:33
I'm a little unclear as to what way to answer the poll, so i'll leave it. My experience of a Catholic school was similar to Paul's, we had a teacher who told us that the Muslims were a fanatic race (using the riots after the Danish cartoon as proof), and stated that the majority of Muslims were rioting. When I pointed out to her roughly how many Muslims there were in the world, she ignored my point and told me that I didn't understand. Individual example, but still broadly indicative of some of the teaching in Catholic school with not very bright people attempting to indoctrinate (and largely succeeding in the end) young people.

The values of different religions are often knocked down, or glossed over, especially when it comes to Protestantism versus Catholicism. After a history lesson in which we learned about why the schism happened, and Luther's main doctrinal motivations, half the class came out wondering why the hell the Catholic church still "believes" in transubstantiation, when the Protestant account made much more sense!

Knowledge is a powerful tool, and it is my view that some religious schools actively withhold knowledge of other religions out of fear, and it only serves to create either disillusioned young people, like myself, or indoctrinated numbnuts, who accept based on an authority instruction, and find questioning pointless.

Long and short of it, ALL schools should actively teach about different faiths, if such is their choice. If some schools refuse to teach on other faiths, then maybe legislation is a good idea. The idea of 'actively promoting Islam' is completely beyond the point, and surely only highlights your already broadly biased, and maybe fearful, outlook, Eaglecap.



Am not I Dametas? Why, am not I Dametas?
Back to Top
Parnell View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 04-Apr-2007
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 1365
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2009 at 20:36
I went to the same school and year as Dolphin here, and we had a religion teacher who was a priest and extremely open minded, to the extent it seemed that he was barely catholic at times, never mind a priest! He once showed us a documentary about a Catholic woman converting to Islam in order to marry her Muslim partner. It was actually very informative at the time, she didn't appear to be 'coerced' into any of the things I associated with Islam at the time. So while there are good people (Like the priest I mentioned) and bad (Like the teacher Dolphin had, if its the same person i think it is) I think the code should be streamlined. In short, too many stupid people become teachers and the enlightened ones tend to be in the minority. Better to have a rock hard format for teachers to follow based on non discrimination and relatively objective teaching, mainly because too many are philistines...
"Neither apathy nor antipathy can ever bring out the truth of history" Eoin Mac Neill.
Back to Top
eaglecap View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar

Joined: 15-Feb-2005
Location: DesertSouthwest
Status: Offline
Points: 3264
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2009 at 20:46
Originally posted by es_bih es_bih wrote:

I am curious why you chose to "promoting Islam" as your opening sentence, other than to get attention. But to the article:
Originally posted by code of conduct of teachers code of conduct of teachers wrote:

Principle 4 of the code demands that teachers ‘proactively challenge
discrimination’ and ‘promote equality and value diversity in all their
professional relationships and interactions’ before they can be
registered.‘This anxiety extends similarly to the direction to “promote equality”,’ Miss Stannard said.

If a teacher was asked at interview if he or she was willing to use
materials designed by gay rights groups, the teacher could be rejected
for declining because he or she would be in breach of Principle 4.

If
a pupil asked an RE teacher if Jesus Christ was the only means to
salvation and the teacher replied yes, a non-Christian parent could
complain to the GTC over a breach of Principle 4.

I can't say that I disagree with this... All it is is telling teachers that they can't discriminate...Yes Christian, Jewish, Islamic, and other religious based schools should teach common-sense courses about homosexuality. In that they should not actively promote it as this code of conduct doesn't even ask them to do that... but they shouldn't tell little Timmy that "all fags will burn in hell" either if he asks the teacher what a homosexual is.... same goes for other faiths... they should say this is what we believe (and sate who the group is that they or the majority of the children and the teacher belong to), but there are beliefs that believe in this....This isn't actively promoting it... and yes all religious based schools should promote equality, a fair understanding of homosexuality, rather than teaching the kids to be some sort of homophobic (that causes real life problems in real life i.e. the kid being conditioned actively that these people are wrong and causing them problems in the long run)You don't have to say that you don't believe the Jesus is the way, you can say, for me or for me as a evangelical it is true, but in other faiths it is not....All you are doing is being respectful while keeping your beliefs.


I tried to fix it but when I went to edit it would not allow me to but when I cut and pasted the sentence I missed some but it was an accident, I apologize for the misunderstanding. I have nothing against teaching about homosexuality or other religions but when the state dictates to the private school what to teach then that is wrong and Muslim schools, like the Christian, could be forced to teach things about homosexuality that they do not want or agree with. I am glad they, or for now, cannot do that in the USA, This is one more reason I am glad I live here and not England. I have been to England several times and I love it but it is becoming to oppressive for me but the fccus here is. Does the state or government in England have the moral right to dictate to private religious school what to teach? Any religious school!!
Well then, brothers and fellow citizens and soldiers, remember this in order that your memorial, your fame and freedom will be eternal.
Back to Top
es_bih View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar
Beglerbeg

Joined: 20-Dec-2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3426
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2009 at 21:18
Originally posted by Dolphin Dolphin wrote:

I'm a little unclear as to what way to answer the poll, so i'll leave it. My experience of a Catholic school was similar to Paul's, we had a teacher who told us that the Muslims were a fanatic race (using the riots after the Danish cartoon as proof), and stated that the majority of Muslims were rioting. When I pointed out to her roughly how many Muslims there were in the world, she ignored my point and told me that I didn't understand. Individual example, but still broadly indicative of some of the teaching in Catholic school with not very bright people attempting to indoctrinate (and largely succeeding in the end) young people.

The values of different religions are often knocked down, or glossed over, especially when it comes to Protestantism versus Catholicism. After a history lesson in which we learned about why the schism happened, and Luther's main doctrinal motivations, half the class came out wondering why the hell the Catholic church still "believes" in transubstantiation, when the Protestant account made much more sense!

Knowledge is a powerful tool, and it is my view that some religious schools actively withhold knowledge of other religions out of fear, and it only serves to create either disillusioned young people, like myself, or indoctrinated numbnuts, who accept based on an authority instruction, and find questioning pointless.

Long and short of it, ALL schools should actively teach about different faiths, if such is their choice. If some schools refuse to teach on other faiths, then maybe legislation is a good idea. The idea of 'actively promoting Islam' is completely beyond the point, and surely only highlights your already broadly biased, and maybe fearful, outlook, Eaglecap.





Good post.

Back to Top
es_bih View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar
Beglerbeg

Joined: 20-Dec-2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3426
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2009 at 21:25
Yes it does eaglecap because ignorant people teaching only their viewpoint in school will only raise several more generations of ignorant people. Other faiths, ideologies, lifesytles should be taught in a school no matter what religion it is. Why? Because it simply makes sense and because it is a responsible thing to do. Telling a kid that he will go to hell if he doesn't believe, or that other faiths are evil, or that homosexuals are Satan's minions is asinine - and all this code of conduct would do is prevent some retrograde from doing so. You can disagree with anyhting in a polite manner while still presenting the other view point. 

Back to Top
eaglecap View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar

Joined: 15-Feb-2005
Location: DesertSouthwest
Status: Offline
Points: 3264
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2009 at 21:51
Originally posted by es_bih es_bih wrote:

Yes it does eaglecap because ignorant people teaching only their viewpoint in school will only raise several more generations of ignorant people. Other faiths, ideologies, lifesytles should be taught in a school no matter what religion it is. Why? Because it simply makes sense and because it is a responsible thing to do. Telling a kid that he will go to hell if he doesn't believe, or that other faiths are evil, or that homosexuals are Satan's minions is asinine - and all this code of conduct would do is prevent some retrograde from doing so. You can disagree with anyhting in a polite manner while still presenting the other view point. 


I am not disagreeing with you but should the state government dictate this? I went to a Baptist Elementary school and they taught people to love gays but not their actions. But this agenda goes against what these religious schools teach and violates their faith. No one should hate gays and they should be free to live with this choice but I recall the church did not say all gays are going to Hell. All I ever heard was only God knows their fate but it was not different than any other sin. Although, Britain has no First Amendment rights so the state has this right even though I do not agree with it. If they teach about religions as a private school they also have the right to teach why, whatever faith they are, these various faith disagrees with them and why they are wrong, this is freedom of religion and conscience. Same with gays a church, Mosque or synagogue also also the right to teach about the negative impact of being gay such as disease and other issue gays face but I suspect that would be hate speech in the UK. I have talked to more than one Muslim about homosexuality and everyone of them was negative, in person/ not the net. I have also met some Christians who hated them but most would say love the sinner and hate the sin. For me, I do not care what people do in their private life but once again I am glad I live in the USA and not the UK. I read over the code and as an Ameican they seem repressive like the state knows better.

Edited by eaglecap - 03-Mar-2009 at 21:54
Well then, brothers and fellow citizens and soldiers, remember this in order that your memorial, your fame and freedom will be eternal.
Back to Top
edgewaters View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 13-Mar-2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 2396
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2009 at 22:23

Originally posted by Menumorut Menumorut wrote:

I think that creationist and matetrialist theories should be presented to children as two options of belief

Perhaps in comparative religion. Creationism should not be taught as science, though, because it is not science and it doesn't meet scientific standards.

Back to Top
edgewaters View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 13-Mar-2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 2396
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2009 at 22:26

Originally posted by eaglecap eaglecap wrote:

I am not disagreeing with you but should the state government dictate this? I went to a Baptist Elementary school and they taught people to love gays but not their actions. But this agenda goes against what these religious schools teach and violates their faith. No one should hate gays and they should be free to live with this choice but I recall the church did not say all gays are going to Hell. All I ever heard was only God knows their fate but it was not different than any other sin.

Well, if they are going to teach children that, then they should be consistent with the rest of Leviticus and teach children that wearing cotton-polyester blends is a sin, and so is eating shrimp.

http://www.godhatesshrimp.com/



Edited by edgewaters - 03-Mar-2009 at 22:27
Back to Top
Parnell View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 04-Apr-2007
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 1365
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2009 at 22:50
Frankly, the state does know better sometimes. I wouldn't allow Fred Phelps to teach his grandchildren, were I in any position of authority whatsoever. Children do not have the same rights as adults, their minds haven't formed the basic cognitive abilities adults have, and its quite easy to impress fringe ideas on them at a young age, especially if you concurrently teach them a narrow world view which discourages independent thinking. The teaching of children should be standardised, frankly, the parents have less rights on this matter than they do over their lives and bodies for the simple reason that children are to be protected by society as a whole along with the family.
"Neither apathy nor antipathy can ever bring out the truth of history" Eoin Mac Neill.
Back to Top
es_bih View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar
Beglerbeg

Joined: 20-Dec-2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3426
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2009 at 23:49
Originally posted by eaglecap eaglecap wrote:

Originally posted by es_bih es_bih wrote:

Yes it does eaglecap because ignorant people teaching only their viewpoint in school will only raise several more generations of ignorant people. Other faiths, ideologies, lifesytles should be taught in a school no matter what religion it is. Why? Because it simply makes sense and because it is a responsible thing to do. Telling a kid that he will go to hell if he doesn't believe, or that other faiths are evil, or that homosexuals are Satan's minions is asinine - and all this code of conduct would do is prevent some retrograde from doing so. You can disagree with anyhting in a polite manner while still presenting the other view point. 


I am not disagreeing with you but should the state government dictate this? I went to a Baptist Elementary school and they taught people to love gays but not their actions. But this agenda goes against what these religious schools teach and violates their faith. No one should hate gays and they should be free to live with this choice but I recall the church did not say all gays are going to Hell. All I ever heard was only God knows their fate but it was not different than any other sin. Although, Britain has no First Amendment rights so the state has this right even though I do not agree with it. If they teach about religions as a private school they also have the right to teach why, whatever faith they are, these various faith disagrees with them and why they are wrong, this is freedom of religion and conscience. Same with gays a church, Mosque or synagogue also also the right to teach about the negative impact of being gay such as disease and other issue gays face but I suspect that would be hate speech in the UK. I have talked to more than one Muslim about homosexuality and everyone of them was negative, in person/ not the net. I have also met some Christians who hated them but most would say love the sinner and hate the sin. For me, I do not care what people do in their private life but once again I am glad I live in the USA and not the UK. I read over the code and as an Ameican they seem repressive like the state knows better.


But you have a code of conduct at other State and Federal jobs, too. So teachers being included in that is not surprising. A code of conduct in companies as well ensures that John doesn't walk around the office in boxers, or grabs Marie's ass while exiting the room to go on lunch break.

Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 06-Dec-2004
Location: Luxembourg
Status: Offline
Points: 7011
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2009 at 11:21
Originally posted by edgewaters edgewaters wrote:

I don't think religions should be competing to win over children, the whole "get em while they're young and impressionable" idea leaves a bad taste in my mouth. If you're going to do religion with youngsters, at least let them all be on an equal footing so they can decide for themselves. Even better - leave it out of education altogether, and let them adopt or reject as they will when they are old enough to make informed decisions.
The trouble is, if you leave it out of education altogether, they never will be able to make informed decisions.
 
Pretty well all the opposition to positions like that of the UK government here comes from people who want their children to be educated in one and only one faith, and taught how all the others are wrong. And they want the teaching to be done only by themselves or their pastors (or organisations like the Christian Brothers).
Citizen of Ankh-Morpork
Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984.
Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 06-Dec-2004
Location: Luxembourg
Status: Offline
Points: 7011
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2009 at 11:27
Originally posted by Menumorut Menumorut wrote:

As for religions, if a religion offer moral ideas, it should be presented to children. Else, is pure indoctrination. And for that reason some religions should be, I consider, forbidden, not only in schools but in every way, like satanism and other that produce alienation of human being.
 
Forbidding the teaching of certain religions is indoctrination.
 
You position simply boils down to asserting that children should only be taught about religions that you consider right. The government has a moral duty, let alone right, to ensure that you are not favoured above other people. 
Citizen of Ankh-Morpork
Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984.
Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 06-Dec-2004
Location: Luxembourg
Status: Offline
Points: 7011
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2009 at 11:39
Originally posted by eaglecap eaglecap wrote:

 I have nothing against teaching about homosexuality or other religions but when the state dictates to the private school what to teach then that is wrong
The state has a right and a duty to supervise how children are being brought up. A logical extension of what you just said would be that schools for car thieves should be permitted.
Quote
and Muslim schools, like the Christian, could be forced to teach things about homosexuality that they do not want or agree with.
They should of course be required to teach facts, and not required to teach rumours or legends. If you're studying politics, you shouldn't only study liberal democracy. Muslim schools and Christian schools should NOT exist to ensure children grow up as Muslims or Christians. (Same of course for any other faith.) Governments have both a duty and a right to increase tolerance and reduce discrimination, and the existence of faith-centred education runs counter to both those goals.
Quote
I am glad they, or for now, cannot do that in the USA, This is one more reason I am glad I live here and not England. I have been to England several times and I love it but it is becoming to oppressive for me but the fccus here is. Does the state or government in England have the moral right to dictate to private religious school what to teach? Any religious school!!
Yes. Any government has the moral right to do so. They don't all have a legal right to do so.
 
This is especially true in the current state of increasing religious hostility and antagonism.
Citizen of Ankh-Morpork
Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 7>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.063 seconds.