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Brian J Checco ![]() General ![]() ![]() Eli Manning Joined: 30-Jan-2007 Status: Offline Points: 926 |
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No, I'd have to say Paul's initial question forms a perfect example of a logical paradox. If God's Word is infallible, then here is no need to explore outside possibilities or paradigm shifts. If God's Word is not infallible, then all of creation comes undone, no? So, technically, if God were to philosophize at all, all of creation would be reduced to void, and we would have no way of knowing about it if he ever did. Also, if God is omnipotent, then there is no need for him to philosophize and explore new ideas, since he already knows them all- ergo, the question is solved before it could be posed.
Good thought, Paul! |
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My Name is Eli Manning. Ponce owns my soul.
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Paul ![]() Editorial Staff ![]() ![]() AE Immoderator Joined: 21-Aug-2004 Location: Hyperborea Status: Offline Points: 965 |
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Finally someone gets the idea of the question....
![]() there's an old episode of the Twighlight zone with Ron Glass as the Devil where to save his soul a professor has to give him a command to do something he can't do.
I was trying to come up the same if it was me and god in their place......
Edited by Paul - 15-Feb-2008 at 22:41 |
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Light blue touch paper and stand well back
http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk |
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Brian J Checco ![]() General ![]() ![]() Eli Manning Joined: 30-Jan-2007 Status: Offline Points: 926 |
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Well, it seems to me you found it, Paul, old bean!
Now, it's off to that game of cards. I believe I will pose this self-same question to my fellow gamblers. Perhaps it will distract them enough as so I can fleece them blind... inspiring, Paul. Truly magnificent. Edited by Brian J Checco - 16-Feb-2008 at 02:29 |
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My Name is Eli Manning. Ponce owns my soul.
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Omar al Hashim ![]() Immortal Guard ![]() ![]() Joined: 05-Jan-2006 Location: Snowy-Highlands Status: Offline Points: 5725 |
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Maybe I am not understanding properly, but I don't see any logical paradox, because I don't see any reason for a book written by an all-knowing being to
(a) Contain all knowledge (b) Not be directed at its target audience. The book encourages you to think in a particular way. I don't see it as a requirement of a philosophy book to contain errors. (Call me an Engineer but if the writer doesn't think its right why the hell am I reading it?) Edited by Omar al Hashim - 16-Feb-2008 at 09:49 |
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"O Byzantines! If success is your desire and if you seek right guidance and want your empire to remain then give the pledge to this Prophet"
~ Heraclius, Roman Emperor |
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Akolouthos ![]() Immortal Guard ![]() ![]() Joined: 24-Feb-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2096 |
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I'm a bit perplexed as well, Omar. It's surely an interesting question, but I fail to see the paradox unless both "God" and "philosophy" are interpreted in very specific ways.
-Akolouthos
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Brian J Checco ![]() General ![]() ![]() Eli Manning Joined: 30-Jan-2007 Status: Offline Points: 926 |
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Retake those philosophy 101's, gentlemen.
PS- Aklothuos, being the AE's numero uno semanticist when it comes to early-Christian logic, surely you can see how fellows might be nit-picky when it comes to philosophy... |
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My Name is Eli Manning. Ponce owns my soul.
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Akolouthos ![]() Immortal Guard ![]() ![]() Joined: 24-Feb-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2096 |
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Aye, Brian, I can see the need to be nit-picky. Perhaps it is because I am tired.
![]() -Akolouthos
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Brian J Checco ![]() General ![]() ![]() Eli Manning Joined: 30-Jan-2007 Status: Offline Points: 926 |
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Certainly.
1- A paradox can be an apparently true statement or group of statements that leads to a contradiction or a situation which defies intuition; the premises themselves cannot all be true together. - Wiki 2- Though no single definition of philosophy is uncontroversial, and the field has historically expanded and changed depending upon what kinds of questions were interesting or relevant in a given era, it is generally agreed that philosophy is a method, rather than a set of claims, propositions, or theories. Its investigations are based upon rational thinking, striving to make no unexamined assumptions and no leaps based on faith or pure analogy. -Wiki 3- omniscient /omnissi • adjective knowing everything. — DERIVATIVES omniscience noun omnisciently adverb. — ORIGIN Latin omnisciens, from scire ‘to know’. (In monotheistic religions, this ability is attributed only to God.)-Oxford English Dictionary 5- Ergo, the initial question, if put into an assertive statement (i.e. "God can write a philosophy book."), constitutes a logical paradox by putting two contradictory concrete ideas into a single sentence or thought. Since God is omniscient and therefore cannot question that which he already knows (which is everything), the statement is paradoxical. Hope that helps, buddy. Edited by Brian J Checco - 16-Feb-2008 at 19:02 |
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My Name is Eli Manning. Ponce owns my soul.
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Zaitsev ![]() Chieftain ![]() ![]() Joined: 16-Oct-2006 Location: The Hill Status: Offline Points: 1008 |
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I agree with Akolouthos here. Paul's argument/question relies on a specific interpretation of the word 'philosophy'. Some philosophers would argue that philosophy should not be defined as such. Then again some philosophers would argue otherwise. The contradiction itself therefore supports the first case.
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Straw Man - a weak or sham argument
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Brian J Checco ![]() General ![]() ![]() Eli Manning Joined: 30-Jan-2007 Status: Offline Points: 926 |
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Even in the most general definition, philosophy is a method of inquisition. An omniscient being has no need to apply an inquisitive method, since everything is already known to said-being. This really isn't so terribly difficult to grasp, I hope. Quite a simple notion, really. |
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My Name is Eli Manning. Ponce owns my soul.
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Omar al Hashim ![]() Immortal Guard ![]() ![]() Joined: 05-Jan-2006 Location: Snowy-Highlands Status: Offline Points: 5725 |
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Well as anyone who is familiar with logic more than philosophy all I can say is one the axiomatic rules is:
A&~A Therefore B So if you have indeed constructed a paradox, that mathematically proves the existence of God. |
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"O Byzantines! If success is your desire and if you seek right guidance and want your empire to remain then give the pledge to this Prophet"
~ Heraclius, Roman Emperor |
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Brian J Checco ![]() General ![]() ![]() Eli Manning Joined: 30-Jan-2007 Status: Offline Points: 926 |
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Haha, I believe that would be a topic for a different thread, Omar.
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My Name is Eli Manning. Ponce owns my soul.
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Paul ![]() Editorial Staff ![]() ![]() AE Immoderator Joined: 21-Aug-2004 Location: Hyperborea Status: Offline Points: 965 |
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Simple question, we set god a task.
Write an essay on the middle east crises.
He gives it his best effort based upon all his knowledge and power.
We then read it, find all the errors he made, circle them in red pen..... and give him a B-
We then send god to school so he may improve his knowledge.
agree?
Edited by Paul - 17-Feb-2008 at 10:20 |
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Light blue touch paper and stand well back
http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk |
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Zaitsev ![]() Chieftain ![]() ![]() Joined: 16-Oct-2006 Location: The Hill Status: Offline Points: 1008 |
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I don't believe there is enough paper in the world for such a task Paul.
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Straw Man - a weak or sham argument
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Omar al Hashim ![]() Immortal Guard ![]() ![]() Joined: 05-Jan-2006 Location: Snowy-Highlands Status: Offline Points: 5725 |
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Ha ha. That would just show the ignorance of the teacher combined with the arrogance of the system. |
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"O Byzantines! If success is your desire and if you seek right guidance and want your empire to remain then give the pledge to this Prophet"
~ Heraclius, Roman Emperor |
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xi_tujue ![]() Editorial Staff ![]() ![]() Atabeg Joined: 19-May-2006 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 1919 |
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God can do what ever it likes
not going to refere to God as He thats sexist and God has no gender |
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I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Paul ![]() Editorial Staff ![]() ![]() AE Immoderator Joined: 21-Aug-2004 Location: Hyperborea Status: Offline Points: 965 |
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Are you suggesting god's essay couldn't be improved by us?
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Light blue touch paper and stand well back
http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk |
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JanusRook ![]() Sultan ![]() ![]() Ad Maiorem Dei Gloriam Joined: 03-Aug-2004 Status: Offline Points: 2424 |
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Seeing as how essays are subjective I was under the impression that "improvement" of one would be an artificial improvement. Since I know when I finish an essay I'm perfectly content that it needs no improvement at all. |
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Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative.
Unless otherwise noted source is wiki. |
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Brian J Checco ![]() General ![]() ![]() Eli Manning Joined: 30-Jan-2007 Status: Offline Points: 926 |
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As an editor of essays myself, I can tell you that any and all essays could always use improvement.
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My Name is Eli Manning. Ponce owns my soul.
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Omar al Hashim ![]() Immortal Guard ![]() ![]() Joined: 05-Jan-2006 Location: Snowy-Highlands Status: Offline Points: 5725 |
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Yes.
How could you possibly think you could improve it?
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"O Byzantines! If success is your desire and if you seek right guidance and want your empire to remain then give the pledge to this Prophet"
~ Heraclius, Roman Emperor |
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