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Forum LockedBulgarian Church in Istanbul

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bg_turk View Drop Down
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    Posted: 15-Aug-2006 at 20:14
I just wanted to raise an interesting issue with regard to the Bulgarian Iron church in Istanbul. I was made aware of the issue in a Turkish forum.


http://ide.li/wiki_Turkey-Sveti_Dimityr.html


The above source claims that the following script is on the door of the church:

Quote
"Храмъ Св. в. м. Димитри Мироточивий
е съграденъ въ лето Господне 1921
следъ Рождество Христово
съ средствата и предстоянието на родолюбивия
Димитъръ Г. Спировъ
родомъ отъ Загоричени Костурско Македония
въ паметъ и веченъ споменъ на убитите
на 25 мартъ 1905 г.
63 българи въ родното имъ с. Загоричени..."


my translation:

Quote
The Church of St Dimitri Mitrovich
was built in the year 1921 AD
with the help of the patriot
Dimitar Spirov
born in Zagoricheni Kostursko Macedonia
in memory of the 63 Bulgarians
killed on 25th March 1905 in their native village of Zagoricheni ...


Now, I personally do not know under what circumstances those 63 Bulgairan were killed in 1905, neither do I know what exactly happened, but I would assume they were killed as rebells against the Ottoman administration. Can somebody please clarify?


I raised this issue, because there have been attempts by Bulgarian Turks to build a "Chesme" in Trinak (Dikenlik) village to commemorate the Turks killed during the revival process, and also a recent proposal to build a thombstone on Shipka to commemorate the fallen Turkish soldiers have all met fierce opposition, for being offensive to the Bulgarian nation and promoting animosity.

An association of exiled Bulgarian Turks in Turkey is now trying to bring these issues to the attention of Turkish courts, in order to campaign for the removal of the script from the door of the Bulgarian church in Istanbul under the same reasons.

I personally hope they will not succeed but the attitude of the Bulgarian authorities with regard to the Turkish monuments in Bulgaria are not helping at all.


Edited by bg_turk - 15-Aug-2006 at 20:27
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Jay. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jay. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2006 at 21:07
I made a topic on Bulgarian Orthodox churches in the Historical Pictures board. Maybe post this there?

edit: nvm, i see it. Smile


Edited by Jay. - 15-Aug-2006 at 21:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Chargemaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 02:21
Originally posted by bg_turk bg_turk wrote:

I just wanted to raise an interesting issue with regard to the Bulgarian Iron church in Istanbul. I was made aware of the issue in a Turkish forum.

Now, I personally do not know under what circumstances those 63 Bulgairan were killed in 1905, neither do I know what exactly happened, but I would assume they were killed as rebells against the Ottoman administration. Can somebody please clarify?


bg_turk, go there: http://macedonia-history.blogspot.com/ and find the word "загоричани" in that page.
And you can tell to these turkish guys the truth: http://www.bg-turk.com/index.php?act=forum&do=view&id=7290

Also you can go there.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 02:43
So Greeks killed them?
Thanks for the info by the way, I appreciate it.


Edited by bg_turk - 16-Aug-2006 at 02:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NikeBG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 02:48
So, it's not the Turks, but the Greeks? Sorry, BG_Turk! Tongue Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 03:06
Originally posted by NikeBG NikeBG wrote:

So, it's not the Turks, but the Greeks? Sorry, BG_Turk! Tongue Wink


Should I be sad or happy?

On the bad side, it ruins my whole argument for Turkish monuments in Bulgaria.
But on the good side, it releaves us Turks with 63 lives for the list of crimes that we are responsible for.

I know my whole argument is ruined by this revelation by Chargemaster, but let's for the sake of argument assume that Turks were indeed responsible for this crime and that in fact Turkey was advanced enough and wise enough to allow Bulgarian monuments on its territory, commemorating fallen Bulgarian soldiers or rebells. Would Bulgaria reciprocate the move by allowing that similar monuments be built on her territory.

In fact I am interested to know your position on the proposals to build a monuments marking the graves of Turkish soldiers during the Shipka battles of 1878?



Edited by bg_turk - 16-Aug-2006 at 03:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NikeBG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 03:26
I doubt modern Bulgarian nationalism would allow such a thing. I, personally, have nothing against it, as long as it's kept simple and not provocative (not some grand monument, which could only irritate the more "patriotic" of us). And especially for the Shipka monument it's gonna be quite harder! I think nothing happened with that teke of Enihan Baba at Svoboda peak, but then again - there was only an ancient Thracian temple destroyed there. It can't be compared to something newer and more "sacred" as of today...

Edited by NikeBG - 16-Aug-2006 at 03:28
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Chargemaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 04:10
Originally posted by bg_turk bg_turk wrote:

In fact I am interested to know your position on the proposals to build a monuments marking the graves of Turkish soldiers during the Shipka battles of 1878?

These turkish soldiers commited the massacre in the town of Stara Zagora(Eski Zagra) before the battle of Shipka...

Two variants:

1.Their remains can be moved to Turkey, and there build for them what monuments you want...
2. The other possibility: On their monument in Bulgaria must to be included also an information about the massacre in Stara Zagora.


Edited by The Chargemaster - 16-Aug-2006 at 04:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Burdokva Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 05:38
I have no problem with their remains moved to Turkey and a monument build there. After all, I do understand that those are turkish soldiers who fought for their country and believed they were fighting for a just cause.

But I'm absolutely against a monument on Shipka. If it was a monument for the Ottoman soldiers in the Balkan or First World War, and not there- fine.
But not on Shipka. The simple name of the pass is an epithet for Bulgarian freedom. Those soldiers commited many attrocities against civilian population, massacres and destruction.

I don't want to sound like a nationalists, but some thing are well... too symbolic and importaint for such a thing.
Imagine if the Japanese wanted to put a monument for the fallen soldiers at Okinawa next to the US monument in Washington?
Or one for the Wermacht soldiers in Moscow...   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Chargemaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 06:00
Originally posted by Burdokva Burdokva wrote:

Imagine if the Japanese wanted to put a monument for the fallen soldiers at Okinawa next to the US monument in Washington?
Or one for the Wermacht soldiers in Moscow...

Imagine if the Japanese wanted to put a monument for their fallen soldiers in Pearl Harbor...
Or one for the SS nazi soldiers in Tel Aviv in Israel...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alparslan1071 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 06:06
 am in this allempires forum for the contact with the other people and with their culture.Especially meeting with the people who lived for 1000 years in the same land.I am here get know them and their past life and musics ,arts.
 
NIKE-BG thank you for your nice addition to my thread.I am living a quarter of Istanbul where is located cross the biggest Bulgarian Church(Sveti Stefan) of Istanbul.Also in my street still lots a bulgarian friend living in here.
 
I m proud that we have a nice iron churc in here.They came to Istanbul during the Ottoman period.It s a color in my city and in my life.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alparslan1071 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2006 at 04:55
sveti stefan is an iron church
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Chargemaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2006 at 12:06
This is interesting to me:
Is "Sveti Stefan" the one iron cruch in the world nowadays?


Edited by The Chargemaster - 19-Aug-2006 at 12:06
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 16:40
Originally posted by The Chargemaster The Chargemaster wrote:

Originally posted by Burdokva Burdokva wrote:

Imagine if the Japanese wanted to put a monument for the fallen soldiers at Okinawa next to the US monument in Washington?
Or one for the Wermacht soldiers in Moscow...

Imagine if the Japanese wanted to put a monument for their fallen soldiers in Pearl Harbor...
Or one for the SS nazi soldiers in Tel Aviv in Israel...
 
 
I admire the imagination of you guys
 
you are not comparing pples to oranges but apples to basketballs
ARDA:The best Turkish diplomat ever!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Chargemaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Sep-2006 at 10:34
Originally posted by The Diplomat The Diplomat wrote:

you are not comparing apples to oranges but apples to basketballs

Then how about that possibility:
Quote 2. The other possibility: On their monument in Bulgaria must to be included also an information about the massacre in Stara Zagora.



Edited by The Chargemaster - 27-Sep-2006 at 10:37
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