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Forum LockedBest Cavalry commander?

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Surenas View Drop Down
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    Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 21:15
Hello all,
Best cavalry commanders who were they?
My list:1.Subedai
        2.Nathan Bedford Forrest
        3.Maharbel
        4.Genghis Khan
        5.Jan Sobielski III
       
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 21:34

Originally posted by Surenas Surenas wrote:

Hello all,
Best cavalry commanders who were they?
My list:1.Subedai
        2.Nathan Bedford Forrest
        3.Maharbel
        4.Genghis Khan
        5.Jan Sobielski III
       

      5.Jan Sobielski III ? Iv never heard about such guy. Maybe you was thinking about Jan III Sobieski?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Surenas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 21:39
Yeah sorry mate i'm not the best spelling last names thanks for the correction
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote majkes1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 21:51
I would add some graet Polish commanders as John Karol Chodkiewicz and Stanislaw Zolkiewski. I'm pretty sure that they were better than Your number 2 and 3.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Feb-2006 at 00:03
Tang Taizong,Ran min,Hunyadi,tamerlame,Subedei,Nurhaci,Khalid 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Feb-2006 at 15:10

who is Maharbel?

this is a very broad question, but for Napoelonic wars easily Latour-Maubourg.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Feb-2006 at 20:44
Originally posted by Temujin Temujin wrote:

who is Maharbel?

this is a very broad question, but for Napoelonic wars easily Latour-Maubourg.

It is Marhabal. He was Hannibal's cavalry commander during the campaign in Italy. Hannibal needed to use his cavalry skillfully in order to execute his maneuvers against the typically superior Roman armies that faced him. Marhabal's leadership of cavalry was excellant, it enabled Hannibal to perform battles such as Cannae with the confidence that his horsemen would strike the Romans where he wanted and when he needed.

It is not the challenges a people face which define who they are, but rather the way in which they respond to those challenges.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Feb-2006 at 15:42

Wow he defeated the roman cavalry what an acheivement ,and managed to flank a wide open flank of the romans at cannae ,surely the worst choice for best commander of caalry i have heard so far..

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Quetzalcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Feb-2006 at 17:24

Joachim Murat. Napoleon, himself, said it all. "Murat may not have strategic insight but his ability to organize his men and carry out a campaign was without equal."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hannibal Barca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Feb-2006 at 20:00
I am surprised no one has mentioned Alexander. He was ultimately known for not just his conquests but innovative cavalry tactics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Feb-2006 at 20:03
what were his innovative cavalry tactics?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Feb-2006 at 20:48

Originally posted by BigL BigL wrote:

what were his innovative cavalry tactics?

The idea of using his infantry to pin in place the enemy, while swooping from the flank to destroy the enemy commander's position. It wasn't exactly innovative as his father had used it on campaign, but Alexander still managed to work it brilliantly and with a great deal of personal flambouyance.

It is not the challenges a people face which define who they are, but rather the way in which they respond to those challenges.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Feb-2006 at 23:11
Isnt that standard flanking used by many armies across the world ..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Feb-2006 at 23:15

Originally posted by BigL BigL wrote:

Isnt that standard flanking used by many armies across the world ..

At the time the Greek armies normally fought by overpowering their enemy on the weaker wing and then flanking them from one side, this was often simply done with the phallanx infantry itself. The armies of Alexander worked differently: by pinning most of the enemy in place while destroying their enemy's strongest point with a wide cavalry arc.

It is not the challenges a people face which define who they are, but rather the way in which they respond to those challenges.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Feb-2006 at 15:20

Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl Quetzalcoatl wrote:


Joachim Murat. Napoleon, himself, said it all. "Murat may not have strategic insight but his ability to organize his men and carry out a campaign was without equal."

Murat was certainly the worst of Napoleons cavalry commanders. in the battle of Borodino he almost got captured by the Russians if he had not sought refugee in a square of Württemberg infantry. in 1813, he lost the battle of Liebertwolkwitz and almost got captured again in a wild cavalry melee if his quatermaster had not shot the Prussian officer who attempted to caputre him, this having been considdered extremely unfair and dishonourable by both French & allies. later, Murat betrayed Napoleon and later rejoined him in 1815, only to loose his last battle and getting executed. even Napoleon in his memoirs on St. Helena later complained about him "i elevated some people beyond their own intelligence". also, in other memoires by french officers we can read that "everyone should hide his cavalry before Murat, otherwise he will take them away on a pointless suicidal charge"

RE Alexanders cavalry: i don't think he was a particularly good cavalry commander, he was similar in nature to Murat, hot-heated and unbalanced. the formations his cavalry used were adopted from thessalian cavalry, his cavalry wasn't otherwise genuinely revolutionary. cavalry flansk were used by everyone but Hellenistic armies since quite some time. and if i remember alexanders battles correctly, the hammer and anvil analogy doesn't hold any truth since his cavalry always engaged the enemy (or was beign engaged) before the phalanx even enganged the enemy.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote majkes1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Feb-2006 at 15:53

Murat was certainly the worst of Napoleons cavalry commanders. in the battle of Borodino he almost got captured by the Russians if he had not sought refugee in a square of Württemberg infantry. in 1813, he lost the battle of Liebertwolkwitz and almost got captured again in a wild cavalry melee if his quatermaster had not shot the Prussian officer who attempted to caputre him, this having been considdered extremely unfair and dishonourable by both French & allies. later, Murat betrayed Napoleon and later rejoined him in 1815, only to loose his last battle and getting executed. even Napoleon in his memoirs on St. Helena later complained about him "i elevated some people beyond their own intelligence". also, in other memoires by french officers we can read that "everyone should hide his cavalry before Murat, otherwise he will take them away on a pointless suicidal charge"

 

I agree. Lannes was much better.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nart_Saga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Feb-2006 at 20:35
Originally posted by majkes1 majkes1 wrote:

Murat was certainly the worst of Napoleons cavalry commanders. in the battle of Borodino he almost got captured by the Russians if he had not sought refugee in a square of Württemberg infantry. in 1813, he lost the battle of Liebertwolkwitz and almost got captured again in a wild cavalry melee if his quatermaster had not shot the Prussian officer who attempted to caputre him, this having been considdered extremely unfair and dishonourable by both French & allies. later, Murat betrayed Napoleon and later rejoined him in 1815, only to loose his last battle and getting executed. even Napoleon in his memoirs on St. Helena later complained about him "i elevated some people beyond their own intelligence". also, in other memoires by french officers we can read that "everyone should hide his cavalry before Murat, otherwise he will take them away on a pointless suicidal charge"

 

I agree. Lannes was much better.



Than I ll say Hadji Murat


How about Hannibal? I think he was similiar to Alexander and cavalry was at least as important for Hannibal as it was to Alexander.



Edited by Nart_Saga
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jovian1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Feb-2006 at 15:51

JEB Stuart - probably the single most gifted commander of cavalry in his era.  Might not be the best commander of all time for sure.

 

Matt R.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote majkes1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Feb-2006 at 15:36

JEB Stuart - probably the single most gifted commander of cavalry in his era.  Might not be the best commander of all time for sure.

What did he achieve? Sorry I don't know american history so well.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote majkes1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Feb-2006 at 16:20
My list:1.Subedai
        2.Nathan Bedford Forrest
        3.Maharbel
        4.Genghis Khan
        5.Jan Sobielski III
I don't think Sobieski was the best cavalry comander in Polish History. He is just most famous because Battle of Vienna.
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