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Forum LockedBattle at Kosovo Polje/Kosovo Field; 1389

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Post Options Post Options   Quote miki015 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Battle at Kosovo Polje/Kosovo Field; 1389
    Posted: 21-May-2007 at 21:23
   Milos  Obilic                                                                                                                                        It was the year 1389 AD...Ottoman empire rising up.They crushed up Byzantie,Macedonia...And finaly,they wanted something more,entrance to Europe,opened gates to defeat christian world.And they find one...Kosovo polje... 28.July,1389. two armies finaly had meet.Soultan Amurat I,as the leader of Otoman army,and Sveti Knez Lazar{Holy Duke Lazar},as the leader of the Serbian army.Battle was so terrible that bouth leaders were death before the battle was over...Messenger was sent to declare Serbian victory and the bells of Notre Dam church was ringing for two days to celebrate...Otoman army was dewasteted,but Serbian army was destroyed completely...just a few manage to retreat to Krusevac...but,with faith in God,that Holy warriors and Martyrios block the way and protect the Europe...




Edited by miki015 - 21-May-2007 at 21:54
Sa verom u Boga
za Kralja i Otadzbinu
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Kapikulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-May-2007 at 21:37
Originally posted by miki015

It was the year 1389 AD...Ottoman empire rising up.They crushed up Byzantie,Macedonia
 
Byzantine Empire was not crushed yet.
 
Originally posted by miki015

...And finaly,they wanted something more,entrance to Europe,opened gates to defeat christian world
 
Not necessarily to defeat the Christian world, it was their natural area of growth at that time, the Balkans!
 
Originally posted by miki015

.Soultan Amurat I,
 
Sultan Murad I to be correct
 
Originally posted by miki015

.Battle was so terrible that bouth leaders were death before the battle was over..
 
Sultan Murad didn't die in action, was murdered after the battle when wandering around the battlefield.
 
Originally posted by miki015

...but,with faith in God,that Holy warriors and Martyrios block the way and protect the Europe...
 
Murad I had the faith in same God, so does that mean God favors Christians more on the battlefield?LOL
 
The aim of the battle in mirror of Serbia was not to protect Europe but to protect themselves, it was not that global...
 
And, Ottomans didn't go further because Sultan Murad was dead, and Bayezid was to be crowned...


Edited by Kapikulu - 21-May-2007 at 21:39
We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;

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Post Options Post Options   Quote miki015 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-May-2007 at 21:57
Alah is not my God...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote miki015 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-May-2007 at 22:04
Have you been there then?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-May-2007 at 23:59

Allah = Arabic word for God, you don't say God i in Serbian either, you say Bog. Mr. Nationalist please refrain from regurgitating Serbian nationalistic crap.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2007 at 00:02
Originally posted by miki015

Have you been there then?
Have you?
 
 
PS.
 
This battle was not for Europe, nor for anything else but for Lazar's stake to the several broken principalities of the former Serbian kingdom.
 
Also, it was the Bosnian king Tvrtko I alongside Hungary and their Croatian vassals, and many Albanians that Lazar fought alongside with. This was by no means a Serbian battle that centuries of folklore and mythology made it out to be. It was a multi national effort to curb Ottoman incursions into the Balkans it failed, therefore the Serbian principalities fell under Ottoman vassalage.
 
 
 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2007 at 00:27
Ottomans won, Serbian principalities became vassal states.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote konstantinius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2007 at 01:16
Beware of the pitfalls of nationalism. Serbia has suffered enough, so has Greece. Others hopefully will find out soon. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2007 at 02:52

It is funny to say, Serbs protected germany england and france at kosova..

 
I am sure all these nations can protect themself better than serbs.
 
It is sad we turks were so unlucky.
 
Greeks bulgarians serbs croats albanians and all other nations protected Europea against us. If They did not protected europea our capital city would be berlin.LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2007 at 07:19

was the ottoman army really devastated? i read, from ottoman sources, that the reason the army didn't pursue the balkan campaign after that battle was because beyazid was eager to assert his new postion as sultan before his brother could. otherwise they wouldn't have returned to edirne. but as i said, these are ottoman sources, so perhaps they are wrong. if so, please inform me.

maybe the fact that the was a second battle of kosovo in the next century proves that the ottoman army really was devastated in that battle.

and konstantinius, i am very interested to learn why and how greek nationalism has been detrimental to greece (from a greek perspective). it was the primary reason for them securing their independence, aside from europeon intervention.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote konstantinius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2007 at 14:04
Well, in my own perspective Greece suffered greatly in the aftermath of the Venizelian "Megali Idea" and the 1918-22 affair. Of course if today Greece was comfortably sitting on both shores of the Aegean I'd probably consider Venizelos a great hero. What can I say that the Romans haven't already: vae victus.
This is off-thread, PM me for more.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote miki015 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2007 at 17:59
I think that all of your reply`s are correct in some way... Why do you think of nationalism same moment when somebody speak about his origines,in my case,Serbian?I am proud to be the Serb,with all of my heart and soul....No one of you can`t understand the meaning of Kosovo for serbian people,it is the very soul of Serbs...Our proverb say : "What belong to other we dont want,but what belong to us we will not gave to others!".I think this is enough for reasonable man to understand...Balkan was always the crossroad of destiny,sometimes wery cruel for us...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2007 at 00:19
Albanians have lived there, too. Well, they can use this same methodology as well.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Kamikaze 738 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2007 at 00:28
Originally posted by miki015

Why do you think of nationalism same moment when somebody speak about his origines,in my case,Serbian?I am proud to be the Serb,with all of my heart and soul....


However, nationalism can sometimes blind you from the truth. From what seem a glorious victory to the nation of the people that fought in it might be just another battle in the war against the Ottomans to other nations. From what others posted, it seems your topic contains some inaccuracy. However, its not shameful to admit that you are wrong, but instead be happy that you got some valid info Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2007 at 06:59
Originally posted by Mortaza

It is funny to say, Serbs protected germany england and france at kosova..

You could say that, but they compensated for it soon afterwards by fighting with the Ottomans against the Crusaders at Nicopolis in 1396. Serbian heavy cavalry was what broke the initial onslaught of the French knights in that battle.
 
There was really no single army to rival the Ottoman one at this point, only conglomerations could hope to stand a chance, and Serbia did not. The Ottomans were at their greatest like the Romans; they frequently lost battles, but they could always muster a new one faster than their opponents could recover, and in the end they always won the war if they focused their resources on it.
Hwæt! wē Gār-Dena in geār-dagum,
þeod-cyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2007 at 09:06
That's exactly what the battle of Kosovo Polje turned out to be a conglomeration of states vs. the Ottoman army, Lazar participated with various Serbian principalities under his control, Tvrtko I of Bosnia sent his army, Hungary sent their Hungarian and Croatian troops, the Albanians of Kosovo as well. It was a multi-national effort, it was not a "Serbian" battle that's where the myth starts that it was some kind of Serbian action. Lazar could not have stood a chance without the crucial help from Bosnia and Hungary. Tvrtko held the title of King of Serbs unlike Lazar, he held some of the western principalities, he had the influence to muster enough troops for that encounter. If Lazar had initiated the battle with no help it would have been a single sided slaughter.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote the_oz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2007 at 13:29
I cant understand why Miloş Obiliç is an hero for Serbians?He just murdered a Turkish Padishah.So what?A new Padishah came..Yıldırım Bayazid was very succesful Padishah too.It didnt damaged Ottoman Empire.It didnt made Serbians stronger..
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jagiello Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2007 at 15:44
I think miki described the battle as a heroic or something like this.The serb army at this time was considered mostly of peasants that didn't really care who they fight or why they do it as long as they survive and return to their families,so i don't consider them heroes or "defenders of chrisindom".The battle itself wasn't that important as it is described.Europe wouldn't care much if it finished the opposite way.All nations that fought large invading armies in Europe(mongols,turks,moors,huns) tend to think their ancestors saved whole Europe but the truth is if it wasn't for them (those that fought against invaders) it would be someone else.We also tend to say we "saved" Europe from the turks or the mongols or the russians but i don't really like such nationalistic statements.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Kamikaze 738 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2007 at 18:54
Ahh... speak English please! Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2007 at 22:21
Originally posted by Jagiello

I think miki described the battle as a heroic or something like this.The serb army at this time was considered mostly of peasants that didn't really care who they fight or why they do it as long as they survive and return to their families,so i don't consider them heroes or "defenders of chrisindom".The battle itself wasn't that important as it is described.Europe wouldn't care much if it finished the opposite way.All nations that fought large invading armies in Europe(mongols,turks,moors,huns) tend to think their ancestors saved whole Europe but the truth is if it wasn't for them (those that fought against invaders) it would be someone else.We also tend to say we "saved" Europe from the turks or the mongols or the russians but i don't really like such nationalistic statements.
 
 
You seem to not have read this topic fully, especially the part about the composition of soldiers.
 
Originally posted by es_bih

That's exactly what the battle of Kosovo Polje turned out to be a conglomeration of states vs. the Ottoman army, Lazar participated with various Serbian principalities under his control, Tvrtko I of Bosnia sent his army, Hungary sent their Hungarian and Croatian troops, the Albanians of Kosovo as well. It was a multi-national effort, it was not a "Serbian" battle that's where the myth starts that it was some kind of Serbian action. Lazar could not have stood a chance without the crucial help from Bosnia and Hungary. Tvrtko held the title of King of Serbs unlike Lazar, he held some of the western principalities, he had the influence to muster enough troops for that encounter. If Lazar had initiated the battle with no help it would have been a single sided slaughter.

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