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    Posted: 03-May-2006 at 10:55

Axe Attack Highlights Resentment

Shocking assault on a Canadian soldier reflects wider sense of anger many Afghans feel about the foreign troop presence in the south.

By Abdullah Shahin in Kandahar (ARR No. 211, 14-Apr-06)

Shinkay is a small, poor village in the volatile southern province of Kandahar and is little known outside the region. But one warm spring day in early March it became famous.

Around 45 people were gathered under trees in Shinkay, listening intently to a group of foreign visitors. Captain Trevor Greene, 41, was part of a team of soldiers that meets regularly with villagers across Kandahar province, trying to find out what their concerns and needs are.

The Canadians took over from United States troops ensuring security in Kandahar in February.

As a gesture of respect, Captain Greene had removed his military helmet, and sat unprotected among the Afghans. Suddenly, a thin youth sneaked up behind him and brought an axe down on his bare head.

The attacker was quickly gunned down by Canadian soldiers. He was later identified as Abdul Karim, just 16 years old.

Greene spent two weeks in hospital in Germany. He is now back home in Canada, and is expected to make a full recovery.

The incident highlights the strong emotions felt by many Afghans under what they see as a hostile foreign occupation.

Immediately after the attack, the questions swirled: Was Abdul Karim a Taleban insurgent? Was he mentally ill? Were the other villagers complicit in the attack?

The Canadian military initially said that the attack was part of a well-planned ambush.

“This attack has had a very negative effect on our mission,” said Lieutenant-Colonel Ian Hope, who heads the Canadian task force in Kandahar. "We have launched an investigation into the case, and we want to get complete information about the attacker.”

But Captain Julie Roberge, spokesperson for the Canadian forces, told IWPR that this assessment has since changed, “We do not think there was a plan, but we will continue to investigate."

Shinkay residents, including people close to the assailant, say that the attack was a protest by a young boy outraged at the behaviour of foreign troops, particularly the Americans.

“The foreigners themselves make people stand against them,” said Tela Mohammad, a village elder, who introduced himself as a close relative of the attacker. “Abdul Karim was not linked to the Taleban, nor did he know anything about any factions or groups.”

According to Haji Mohammad Esa, a resident of the Shah Wali Kot district where Shinkay is located, Abdul Karim was a quiet boy, the son of a poor cobbler in the village.

“Karim was always alone. He didn't have much contact with the other villagers,” said Esa. “We were all surprised when he suddenly attacked the soldier. But I think the main reason he did it was because he was angry at the foreign troops.”

The Canadians have had a difficult time since they took from the Americans.

There are now more than 2,200 troops from Canada in Kandahar province, and they are increasingly coming under attack. Over 20 Canadian soldiers have died in Afghanistan, two of them in the weeks immediately preceding the attack on Greene.

The residents of Shah Wali Kot do not make a distinction between the Canadians and soldiers from the United States. In fact, villagers say, the Canadians are now beginning to behave like the more aggressive US troops.

“We have gone to see the Canadians in Kandahar several times,” said Esa. “We have asked them to have more respect for our culture and beliefs, but they don't.”

Villages like Shinkay have been the target of intensive searches by the US-led Coalition Forces in the area, who are tasked with finding and stamping out the insurgency. Even military insiders say privately that the American forces are sometimes overzealous in their efforts.

“US troops do not show proper respect for our culture and religious beliefs,” said Esa. “They enter homes without permission and disturb people, which makes people hate them.”

“When US troops come to a house, they do not even let the owner open the door,” said Ghulam Mohammad, another villager. “They just break down the door and enter the house. That has made people very upset.”

The Taleban, for their part, put pressure on local residents not to cooperate with Coalition forces. This leaves Afghans caught between two opposing sides.

“Our village has been searched more than 40 times over the past four years,” said Esa. “Foreigners accuse us of being Taleban and al-Qaeda. The Taleban and al-Qaeda accuse us of having links to the government. We do not know what we are being punished for.”

This uneasiness in the face of conflicting forces may explain one of the most perplexing features of the case. The media made much of the fact that all of the children had been led away to their homes right before the attack, bolstering the theory that the villagers had prior knowledge of the violence.

But Ghulam offered another reason, saying, “The Taleban have warned us many times that helping foreigners is helping our enemies. We are afraid of foreigners when they come to visit us, because they bring the Taleban in their wake. When foreigners come here, we try to keep our children at home, because we fear the Taleban.”

Like Esa, Ghulam said that Abdul Karim was acting alone.

“He was acting on his own feelings,” said Ghulam. “If he'd had links with the Taleban or al-Qaeda, they would have given him weapons. He wouldn't have had to use an axe.”

Afghan officials in Kandahar declined to be interviewed on the incident.

Despite the problems and the dangers, Lt-Col Hope says his troops are determined to continue efforts to better the lives of ordinary Afghans.

“The enemy wants to worsen the living condition of poor people,” he said. “But the Canadian soldiers will fulfill the promise they made to the Afghan government.”
---->iwpr.net

Seems like the canadians are set to pickup where the US left off. Anyhow the outlook doesnt seem to be good.

Also one can deduce a moral from the story; if u have a helmet dont take it off while in afghanistan, also be weary of wood cutters, 16 yr olds and people on motorbikes and cars and donkeys and those wearing turbans.



Edited by malizai_
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2006 at 14:29

It's a real story showing the emotion of a real patriot Afghan who even doesn't completly know his good and bad but still knows that Afghanistan has been invaded and he could be amongs the ones who could take back its freedom.

Jut think if 16 year old boy may have that courage and ability to do so, what if there is a bunch of those 16 teenagers demanding freedom (which seems something in a very near futur), what could they do with a courage such like this and what would be the future of the foriegn troops ???
I guess the history has to witness another super power going down in hands of Afghans.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mamikon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2006 at 15:12
I only see the negative influence of elders on the 16 year old...who was  11-12 when the war has begun,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2006 at 16:20

Originally posted by mamikon mamikon wrote:

I only see the negative influence of elders on the 16 year old...who was  11-12 when the war has begun,

I agree with you dear mamikon,
There could be some influence of elders on him but still think of his age only 16. Can you tell me one thing and that is; "Is it possible to motivate an American child of 16 to go and fight for his country?" in case ever America is invaded ???

I was talking about the courage, I mean while you know that your are going to be killed and you are only 16 would you had managed that attack? One thing is for sure that the boy was a real "Brave Heart" !!!



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2006 at 00:14

I personally think that the kid acted on impulse, and was not willing to forgo some displeasure that he had been caused.  I dont think he had reached yet the age of pragmatism and had yet to master the art of dealing with intrigues, like his elders.

However, I think the boy has done more than stick that axe in the head of the canadian, especially having thereafter been shot and killed.. I think the fact that a boy has done this in the presence of grown men, will leave a bitter taste in the mouths of those men having been outdone by a child and attained martyrdom.

Gharanai,

I think it will be exaggerated to think that all pushtun think of the americans as hostile invaders least of all the feudal tribal elders whos power had all but finished at the hands of the taliban, having been  replaced with influential clergy. Each tribal leader has its own views and its own interests close to its heart. Some act for the betterment of their tribe, others for their self. the tribesmen will have to follow thier leader regardless of their personal opinion. The problem for the forces arise when to some tribes the foreign influence becomes disadvantageous vis a vis other tribes or in general. As for any personal vendettas arising from loss of face and indignation etc.. at the hands of foreigners, then the right of retribution of the person offended is independent of the elders. The same can  be extended to the tribe itself. But this is not likely to result in a mass uprising as long as the foreigners are not meddling in their daily affairs. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2006 at 01:23

Originally posted by malizai_ malizai_ wrote:

As a gesture of respect, Captain Greene had removed his military helmet, and sat unprotected among the Afghans. Suddenly, a thin youth sneaked up behind him and brought an axe down on his bare head.

All the Canadians had their helmets removed as was Canadian policy.

Quote
The attacker was quickly gunned down by Canadian soldiers. He was later identified as Abdul Karim, just 16 years old.

The Canadians also had their weapons stowed, the attacker was killed by Afghani soldiers who were with the Canadians.

Quote
Greene spent two weeks in hospital in Germany. He is now back home in Canada, and is expected to make a full recovery.

Leftenant Greene(now Captain) recieved a serious brain injury and will be disabled for life. He is awake but paralized.

As for the attack being the actions of one individual as the story points out the adults removed the children minutes before the attack and immediatly after the attack the Canadians and their Afghan escorts came under small arms and RPG fire. Clearly it was a planned operation.

This story is propaganda and inacurate, are you a member of the Taleban malizai? 

 



 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TeldeInduz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2006 at 03:47

Malizai you nasty Taliban you, quoting from

http://www.iwpr.net/?p=arr&s=f&o=261075&apc_stat e=henparr#

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2006 at 06:12
Originally posted by DukeC DukeC wrote:

Originally posted by malizai_ malizai_ wrote:

As a gesture of respect, Captain Greene had removed his military helmet, and sat unprotected among the Afghans. Suddenly, a thin youth sneaked up behind him and brought an axe down on his bare head.

All the Canadians had their helmets removed as was Canadian policy.

Quote
The attacker was quickly gunned down by Canadian soldiers. He was later identified as Abdul Karim, just 16 years old.

The Canadians also had their weapons stowed, the attacker was killed by Afghani soldiers who were with the Canadians.

Quote
Greene spent two weeks in hospital in Germany. He is now back home in Canada, and is expected to make a full recovery.

Leftenant Greene(now Captain) recieved a serious brain injury and will be disabled for life. He is awake but paralized.

As for the attack being the actions of one individual as the story points out the adults removed the children minutes before the attack and immediately after the attack the Canadians and their Afghan escorts came under small arms and RPG fire. Clearly it was a planned operation.

This story is propaganda and inacurate, are you a member of the Taleban malizai? 

A bit disappointed in your short-sighted, tunnel vision. The purpose of the post was to highlight growing resentment, the prevalence of which was not so widespread at the first arrival of foreign forces. When they were wrongly presumed to be there to help in the reconstruction of Afghanistan. It was a story with the reference present from IWPR which u failed to notice.

DukeC

I will spell out for you explicitly what you lack in capacity to draw out from inferences. Key points of my post aimed to highlight were:

They have taken over from the Americans in an environment already full of resentment and although they may see themselves as making a distinct effort from the Americans, 'some' of the local populace may not.

They must not let their guard down. They are floating in a sea of hostility.

Secondly, because of this event any goodwill that the Canadians could have built with the locals to distinguish themselves from the Americans has evaporated from the very outset.

As for Mr.Greene I am genuinely sorry for the waste of his life in an imperial cause, but equally tragic is the loss of the 16 yr old who's story we may never know and who's life has been curt short one way or another well before it should have.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2006 at 11:24

I don't think you understand Canadians, learn your history. Terrorists based out of Afghanstan have killed thousands in the West and there is a strong resolve to see that never happens again. If, as it seems, you believe that Afghanstan will once again become a haven for terrorists, you're the one who's mistaken.

And you're still spouting what I consider to be propaganda "They must not let their guard down. They are floating in a sea of hostility". Sounds to me like you're singlehandedly declaring war on Canada.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2006 at 12:57

Now I don't support anyone "getting axed", but I don't understand why it was done on a Canadian. If the article says things are getting hostile because the way the Americans treat them, then why kill another country who seems to be trying to treat you on fair grounds, even putting his guard down to show respect to the people.

I love how Gharanai praises this idiot too. The kid wasn't exactly bright, was his idea to attack the guy who shows more respect then the others? I don't know, usually heroes actually show some smarts or go out of their way to do something right for their people. When a action this kid did happens, it's usually considered idiotic. What he did won't help his people, it's just going to make where he lives more stricter by an Army that seemed willing to go down to these peoples eye level instead of acting on a high horse and being rude and more policing and less willing to talk to the people.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2006 at 14:30
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy SearchAndDestroy wrote:

Now I don't support anyone "getting axed", but I don't understand why it was done on a Canadian. If the article says things are getting hostile because the way the Americans treat them, then why kill another country who seems to be trying to treat you on fair grounds, even putting his guard down to show respect to the people.

I love how Gharanai praises this idiot too. The kid wasn't exactly bright, was his idea to attack the guy who shows more respect then the others? I don't know, usually heroes actually show some smarts or go out of their way to do something right for their people. When a action this kid did happens, it's usually considered idiotic. What he did won't help his people, it's just going to make where he lives more stricter by an Army that seemed willing to go down to these peoples eye level instead of acting on a high horse and being rude and more policing and less willing to talk to the people.

IMO malizai and others are just trying to justify the killing of Canadians who are in Afghanistan as part of a U.N. sanctioned multinational force to bring peace to the country. Whatever their motivation is to portrait this attacker as a hero only they really know, but I don't believe it has anything to do with concern for the Afghan people. This whole thread is a load of cr*p.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2006 at 16:28

Originally posted by DukeC DukeC wrote:

I don't think you understand Canadians, learn your history. Terrorists based out of Afghanstan have killed thousands in the West and there is a strong resolve to see that never happens again. If, as it seems, you believe that Afghanstan will once again become a haven for terrorists, you're the one who's mistaken.
And you're still spouting what I consider to be propaganda "They must not let their guard down. They are floating in a sea of hostility". Sounds to me like you're singlehandedly declaring war on Canada.

Dear DukeC,
I would like to tell you that once you have a proud history then it's in mind of each and every citizine of yours, so we I don't think we have learn ours as we know much about it really.

Second you  said "If, as it seems, you believe that Afghanstan will once again become a haven for terrorists, you're the one who's mistaken."

Now I ask you to know your history (oh sorry I ment British history) and if you had some time try to read some about Russians as well, then come up with proves that your ARMY is better in any way than the might of those two Empires.
Then I guess we could talk about your comment .



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2006 at 16:38
Originally posted by DukeC DukeC wrote:

I don't think you understand Canadians, learn your history.

 

Whatever! To be honest it is not an area of interest to me, unlike tribal societies as in Afghanistan, surrounding regions and the caucases.

Originally posted by DukeC DukeC wrote:

 If, as it seems, you believe that Afghanstan will once again become a haven for terrorists, you're the one who's mistaken.

 

There has been no discussion of such. But since u mention it, the region has not yet ceased to become a haven. You seem to wrongly assume that it has for it to become "once again".

Originally posted by DukeC DukeC wrote:

And you're still spouting what I consider to be propaganda "They must not let their guard down. They are floating in a sea of hostility". Sounds to me like you're singlehandedly declaring war on Canada.

It is ur opinion and u r entitled to it. Frankly, i dont care.  I have layed out the reasons for the post and am not going to elaborate any further. You want to defend Canada, fine, but do it elsewhere, since Canada and Canadians have not been attacked here, not by me anyway.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2006 at 16:46

Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy SearchAndDestroy wrote:

I love how Gharanai praises this idiot too. The kid wasn't exactly bright, was his idea to attack the guy who shows more respect then the others? I don't know, usually heroes actually show some smarts or go out of their way to do something right for their people. When a action this kid did happens, it's usually considered idiotic. What he did won't help his people, it's just going to make where he lives more stricter by an Army that seemed willing to go down to these peoples eye level instead of acting on a high horse and being rude and more policing and less willing to talk to the people.

Well, I agree that the Kid was not soo bright and was too young for this action. I only talked about his courage I mean how many 16 year old Canadians who could you name who served there lives for the Nation???

Now that you say this isn't going to help the Nation, you are totaly wronge. Do you know what's going on here, I mean everyone is telling each other that if a 16 year old boy could do that why can't we. I know this sounds wierd but don't forget that revelutions always sound wierd at start but when they end you see a fall down of a might.

And I can assure you one thing that from this act onward Canadian Army will never again put down his guard to show some respect but will keep it always up for his/her life.

I hope you got my point.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2006 at 18:32
Originally posted by Gharanai Gharanai wrote:

Now I ask you to know your history (oh sorry I ment British history) and if you had some time try to read some about Russians as well, then come up with proves that your ARMY is better in any way than the might of those two Empires.
Then I guess we could talk about your comment .

 

Learn your history, the Canadians have a reputation as some of the best close quarters fighters in the world. It's all that hockey we play I guess. We take war a lot more personally than the Americans, and I doubt many Canadians will be taking their Kevlar off or letting their guard down around Afghanis anymore. It's a shame really because we aren't there to enforce Imperialism as you seem to believe but to bring some sort of stability to a country that deserves it as much as any other place in the world. Painting the Canadians as some sort of surogate Americans is simplifying the situation out of all perspective. Talk to me about this later in the fall (after the summer capaign season) and tell me your impression of what Canadians are capable of and I guarentee you your view will be different. The sad thing is there'll be a lot of dead people on both sides by that time.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2006 at 18:44
Originally posted by malizai_ malizai_ wrote:

Originally posted by DukeC DukeC wrote:

I don't think you understand Canadians, learn your history.

 

Whatever! To be honest it is not an area of interest to me, unlike tribal societies as in Afghanistan, surrounding regions and the caucases.

Originally posted by DukeC DukeC wrote:

 If, as it seems, you believe that Afghanstan will once again become a haven for terrorists, you're the one who's mistaken.

 

There has been no discussion of such. But since u mention it, the region has not yet ceased to become a haven. You seem to wrongly assume that it has for it to become "once again".

Originally posted by DukeC DukeC wrote:

And you're still spouting what I consider to be propaganda "They must not let their guard down. They are floating in a sea of hostility". Sounds to me like you're singlehandedly declaring war on Canada.

It is ur opinion and u r entitled to it. Frankly, i dont care.  I have layed out the reasons for the post and am not going to elaborate any further. You want to defend Canada, fine, but do it elsewhere, since Canada and Canadians have not been attacked here, not by me anyway.

Read between the lines of this thread starting with the title "Axed Canadian". What you're saying in words and tone is we are the enemy and should be defeated. As for you not caring about Canadian history or culture, that's your loss because it's as rich and meaningful as any other peoples. I have no doubt that opposition to Canadians and other forces in Afghanastan is going to grow as the Taleban once again tries to take control of the country. I wish it wasn't the case but Canadians will be doing their talking on the battlefield for the first time in more than 50 years. Watch and learn, before you know it you'll know more about Canadian character than you ever thought possible.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2006 at 19:58

Originally posted by Gharanai Gharanai wrote:

Well, I agree that the Kid was not soo bright and was too young for this action. I only talked about his courage I mean how many 16 year old Canadians who could you name who served there lives for the Nation???
 

He didn't serve his life for his nation, he let some immoral cowards like the Taleban are talk him into throwing his life away.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-May-2006 at 08:01

Originally posted by DukeC DukeC wrote:

Read between the lines of this thread starting with the title "Axed Canadian". What you're saying in words and tone is we are the enemy and should be defeated.

Thats really funny. Now i have to read between what i wrote to find the conspiracy. What is so controversial about using the term "Axed Canadian", I didnt write Axed Canadian Thug or something. In fact my reply is more an explanation for others that may read your 'i am a canadian and victim' propaganda ploy to discredit some imaginary enemy. Mr Greene was not a victim either, he was a soldier in a theater of war and i am sure knew of the risks when he joined the service.

Originally posted by DukeC DukeC wrote:

 As for you not caring about Canadian history or culture, that's your loss because it's as rich and meaningful as any other peoples

Canadian culture or history is not "an area of interest" to me, although i am familiar with some regarding the commonwealth. Although u may be able to extend ur history to european history if you have european ancestry etc.

Originally posted by DukeC DukeC wrote:

I have no doubt that opposition to Canadians and other forces in Afghanastan is going to grow as the Taleban once again tries to take control of the country. I wish it wasn't the case but Canadians will be doing their talking on the battlefield for the first time in more than 50 years. Watch and learn, before you know it you'll know more about Canadian character than you ever thought possible.

US policy decisions are why canadians are there and i hope it is not because the canadians find a need to show worth of character in battlefields, as u espouse.  There is nothing glorious about war no matter which side you are one. The glory bs is there to recruit gullible minds in absence of a real cause.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-May-2006 at 15:43

Originally posted by DukeC DukeC wrote:

It's a shame really because we aren't there to enforce Imperialism as you seem to believe but to bring some sort of stability to a country that deserves it as much as any other place in the world. Painting the Canadians as some sort of surogate Americans is simplifying the situation out of all perspective.


Dear DukeC,
I you go through my other posts you will find that I have always appreciated and mentioned the sincere and cordial service of Canadians to our Nation, and I have never equalized them with the Americans and as usual I would say that the nations who in real means are helping Afghans are Germany, Japan, Canada and some other of ISAF member nations.

The problem is that I as an educated Afghan may understand the difference between Americans and Canadians but how in the world is a resident of a rural area who even don't know much about is own country, goint to differenciate Canadians from the Americans. For them all of the foriegners are one and they are the people who have accupied their nation.



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Afghan Empire

Joined: 26-Jan-2006
Location: Afghanistan
Status: Offline
Points: 1514
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-May-2006 at 15:52

Originally posted by DukeC DukeC wrote:

He didn't serve his life for his nation, he let some immoral cowards like the Taleban are talk him into throwing his life away.

I guess you are right some how, as if he was motivated by Taliban and Al-Qayeda then for sure that was just a waste of life as I really don't count the latter turned Taliban (most of whom were foriegners) as servents of country but enemies of.



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