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Forum LockedAustralia Protests!

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Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
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    Posted: 24-Apr-2008 at 10:46
... for a unified China.



The Olympic torch relay in Canberra drew a massive pro-china following, since I left, I have constantly been refering to it as 'the rally', asking people whether they were at the 'One China rally' instead of the torch relay.

It wasn't exclusively a pro-china event though...

The pro tibet cause was championed by guys with little green triangles, and the occasional Tibetian flag, but they were out numbered probably 50:1 at least by pro-china supporters, and probably 100:1 to by pro-china & don't cares.

There was nothing hypocritical about it though,

Canberrans turned out not only to Champion China and Free Tibet, but also to Free Turkestan, Free the Dinka (pictured), Free Scotland, Free Iraq, and Free Speech.

Seriously though, any pro-Tibet protesters were really brave with the hordes of pro-china guys:

Somewhere in that mob of China supporters there was at least one Tibetan support who kept yelling 'Free Tibet', despite being surrounded by 50-60 China supporters yelling much louder "China! Zhungguo!".
That was pretty hairy at that point, plus the police had moved on with the torch, if the chinese supporters had wanted to do something about it there was nothing that could've saved the Tibetan. Fortunately however, there was nothing more serious than a chant off.

btw, those Australian flags are pro-china. Pretty much all the Australian flags bearers were in the pro-china crowd.

This is a picture of the photographer (me)


Oh, and incidently there was a torch in there somewhere, but the crowd was so much more interesting LOL

After seeing today, I think that it was pretty clear that the Australian pro-china sect, is far bigger and more determined than any pro-tibet sentiments. I have to wonder, after seeing pro-tibet protests in other western countries, and this pro-china rally in Aus, exactly how western Australians actually are nowadays...



Edited by Omar al Hashim - 24-Apr-2008 at 10:50
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Apr-2008 at 12:23
Australia is not "western" in geography. That probably played a role.
The Germans also take vacations in Paris; especially during the periods they call "blitzkrieg".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Apr-2008 at 14:14
Just out of curiousity, how many of those pro-China protestants were actually Chinese?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Apr-2008 at 15:54
Nice pics and hat, Omar Dundee!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Apr-2008 at 16:21
Yea, good work... I thought you were posting an article at first, the pics are so well placed (except the one with the weirdo in a cowboy hat).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Apr-2008 at 22:08
Originally posted by Styrbiorn Styrbiorn wrote:

Just out of curiousity, how many of those pro-China protestants were actually Chinese?


i thought the same. looks more like a rally of commies....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowybeagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Apr-2008 at 23:30
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

There was nothing hypocritical about it though,
Canberrans turned out not only to Champion China and Free Tibet, but also to Free Turkestan, Free the Dinka (pictured), Free Scotland, Free Iraq, and Free Speech.
All these protests about conquered lands halfway across the world and no one thought of protesting to return lands seized from Australian Aboriginals living right there?
 
Where's or who's Dinka, BTW?

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

That was pretty hairy at that point, plus the police had moved on with the torch, if the chinese supporters had wanted to do something about it there was nothing that could've saved the Tibetan. Fortunately however, there was nothing more serious than a chant off.
And there shouldn't be.  That's what civilized protests should be - disagree all you want, but no getting physical.   Next step forward should be to hear each other out.  I hope everyone can learn that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Apr-2008 at 23:49
We have many more people in this country who descend from Han Chinese than those with a pro-Tibet consciousness. And you have to take into consideration the huge number of Chinese in Australia who are here on student visas. That explains the numbers.
It is not the challenges a people face which define who they are, but rather the way in which they respond to those challenges.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2008 at 01:22
Originally posted by Styrbiorn Styrbiorn wrote:

Just out of curiousity, how many of those pro-China protestants were actually Chinese?

Judging by their accents, I think about 1/3 - 1/2, and particularly the noisy ones, were chinese-chinese, with most of the rest being Australians with Asian background (probably Han Chinese background I'm guessing). Considering that alot of the chinese-chinese were students, and you have to be fairly rich to be able to send you kid to school in Australia, I'm wondering how much of our chinese student population have links to the communist party.
Although there were a lot more people who weren't chinese, weren't with these pro-china mobs, and were flying chinese flags. Its impossible to say whether they were flying chinese flags because of the Olympics, or to show solidarity to china.

A number of the anti-chinese/communist protesters were also Han Chinese though. One guy burnt a communist flag and he appeared to be Australian of Han Chinese background.
Originally posted by snowybeagle snowybeagle wrote:

All these protests about conquered lands halfway across the world and no one thought of protesting to return lands seized from Australian Aboriginals living right there?

Your right, I didn't see any pro-Aboriginal protesters. Although the torch ceremony was started by Aboriginal dancers, and before all the speakers they said (as is pretty usual now) "We acknowledge the Ngunnawal people [local aboriginal tribe] as the traditional custodians of this land", so in a way, Aboriginal rights is the only cause that got offical recognition.
Quote Where's or who's Dinka, BTW?

The Dinka are from South Sudan, there are quite a few refugees in Canberra from there.

Originally posted by snowy snowy wrote:

And there shouldn't be.  That's what civilized protests should be - disagree all you want, but no getting physical.   Next step forward should be to hear each other out.  I hope everyone can learn that.

Considering the numbers of protesters, they were pretty well behaved. There were heaps of police around too, which probably helped everything stay good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Charioteer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2008 at 07:45

There were about 20,000 Chinese and about 1,000 "pro-Tibetan" protesters, according to hongkong based pheonixtv's report, some Chinese organizers were threatened not to go to Canberra as "pro-Tibetan activists" claimed via anonymous phonecalls that they would carry knives with them. Several forums for Australia overseas Chinese students were "attacked". Some Chinese organizers personal computers and emails were also under "attack".

Canberra did a good job at hosting the torch relay as compared to what happened during the London especially Paris torch relay.
 
Apparently Chinese people are enraged by the French handling of the torch relay which has subsequently sparked a new wave of anti-west nationalism in China.It would be unwise for Australia to signal a wrong message to the Chinese.
 
At the present stage relation between China and Australia is rather good, Australia distinguished itself from other "western" country by starting dialogue rather than plain bashing China on its "human rights", John howard vowed not to intervene on "Taiwan crisis".
almost 10 years ago, as Japan was still Australia's largest trading partner, Australian government would perform a "polite" ceremony for the return of fallen WW2 Japanese soldiers who was Australia's enemy during the war. All because of the weignt of economic priority in bilateral relations that such "appeasing gesture" has its symbolic purpose.
 
now 10 years has passed, what happens between Australia and Japan is rather friction over Japan's commercial whaling, the relation is not as "smooth" between the two as before.
By comparison, apparently as Australia is benefiting from China's growing economy, its attitude towards China has changed quite notably in recent years, it has became more realistic rather than dogmatic when dealing with China.
 
Australia torch relay was quite good, it allowed different voices without leaning towards particular one, it acknowledges both the relation with China and the right of dissenting voices to protest, it acknowledges the importance of Olympic spirit and the need for respecting the torch bearers as most of them are local Australians including the famous Australian athlete Ian Thorpe.
Based on those principles, the federal and ACT police did a good job at maintain orders and providing security for a rather smooth and peaceful Olympic torch relay.
 
China's communists brother states vietnam and north korea would be the next countries to host the torch relay, im also intereted to see the torch relays there.
 


Edited by The Charioteer - 25-Apr-2008 at 08:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2008 at 09:21
Originally posted by The Charioteer The Charioteer wrote:

There were about 20,000 Chinese and about 1,000 "pro-Tibetan" protesters, according to hongkong based pheonixtv's report, some Chinese organizers were threatened not to go to Canberra as "pro-Tibetan activists" claimed via anonymous phonecalls that they would carry knives with them. Several forums for Australia overseas Chinese students were "attacked". Some Chinese organizers personal computers and emails were also under "attack".

are you kidding! still smoking that special stuff

 here is video of the how friendly the Chinese students were to the odd Tibetan protesters and just how intimating it really was. Some lovely remarks from the crowd.

more footage from Canberra, from 3:40 on you can see how they just intimated and pushed the Tibetan protesters around, at 5 a even better example.









Originally posted by The Charioteer The Charioteer wrote:

By comparison, apparently as Australia is benefiting from China's growing economy, its attitude towards China has changed quite notably in recent years, it has became more realistic rather than dogmatic when dealing with China.
the benefit is mutual. the PRC needs our resources more than we need its business. No need to patronize this country, when China stops being dogmatic itself we all can have a reasonable and open relationship.
 
Originally posted by The Charioteer The Charioteer wrote:

Australia torch relay was quite good, it allowed different voices without leaning towards particular one, it acknowledges both the relation with China and the right of dissenting voices to protest, it acknowledges the importance of Olympic spirit and the need for respecting the torch bearers as most of them are local Australians including the famous Australian athlete Ian Thorpe.


Chinese protesting in Sydney

 ..and over our media which of course is their right. BTW they have media choice and can get xinhua or whatever no filters.

can they protest the same way in Beijing and have the same choice of media sources?  better still can Tibetans protest over there like Chinese over here? who is being hypocritical


The Charioteer 'white australia' policy in action


Originally posted by The Charioteer The Charioteer wrote:

Based on those principles, the federal and ACT police did a good job at maintain orders and providing security for a rather smooth and peaceful Olympic torch relay.
concur howver they did have a hand full on with some of the crowd






 
 

however only photo's like this make the cut for the Chinese press

www.news.com.au/gallery/0,23607,5031184-5007150,00.html


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2008 at 09:24
more on the not so freindly parts of that crowd.

Quote

Olympic torch relay: 'thugs' blasted



April 24, 2008 - 1:41PM

Pro-Tibet protesters have reported being heavied by groups of Chinese students who were bussed to Canberra in their thousands to support this morning's Olympic torch relay in Canberra.

But relay organisers say the event was a "raging success", despite pushing and shoving and seven arrests (see rally report).

One woman called Marie said she was mobbed by screaming Chinese students as she tried to watch the relay go past. She had to be rescued and escorted away by police.

Alistair Paterson, 52, from Lake George outside Canberra, said he was standing with his seven-year-old daughter on Limestone Avenue with an older couple, their teenage son and two other young women when they were attacked by a group of about 50 people draped in Chinese flags.

Mr Paterson said he was holding a "Free Tibet" banner and the older couple also had a pro-Tibet placard, which angered the group as it ran along the crowd side of the barrier.

"I got a flying kick in the leg, another bloke was hit in the head with a stick with a Chinese flag attached to it and our banners were torn down," Mr Paterson said.

"When I looked around there were three or four guys who I can only assume were Chinese who wanted to fight me.

"This gang of thugs rolled right through us and we had kids with us. My daughter was still shaking an hour later and is very quiet even now.

"I don't normally get angry but I am so angry right now."

Mr Paterson said he had wanted to show his daughter the meaning of peaceful demonstration.

"We were just a small group of people basically exercising our right, our responsibility to say 'We don't think this is correct'," he said.

"I have heard the police on the radio saying the security was great. Maybe for the torch it was. We told police what had happened to us and they just said 'We know what is going on'."

Another pro-Tibet protester, Marion Vecourcay, said she felt frightened and threatened by the Chinese demonstrators.

"They mobbed the sign, they were really aggressive, insulting and swearing," she said.

"They said we have no right to be here but I live up the street.

"It was just a mob mentality."

Pro-China demonstrator Jeff Li yelled at the pro-Tibetan supporters: "The Dalai Lama is a hypocrite, a liar, an ugly man."

Mr Li said the pro-Tibet protesters were ill-informed.

"These people are idiots, they know nothing about China's history," Mr Li said.

ACT police said seven people were arrested during the relay and would soon be charged with offences relating to the "major events security act".

Five were pro-China protesters, two were pro-Tibet, police said.

Despite the protests and rivalry between groups of supporters, commentators said overall the torch relay had gone off well compared to in cities such as London and Paris, where violence erupted.

Away from the barricades, there was a carnival atmosphere, as spectators revelled in the event under clear blue skies.

A "relieved but elated" ACT government spokesman Jeremy Lasek said despite the arrests, the relay had been a "raging success".

The fact there were so few arrests among more than 20,000 people, with tensions sometimes running high, was a great result, he said.

"The most important thing is the flame was never in danger, from start to finish, and that's an enormous credit to our federal police," Mr Lasek told Sky News.

Earlier, ACT Chief Minister Jon Stanhope said he upheld the right for people to demonstrate peacefully.

"I uphold utterly the right of anyone to use the leg of today's relay as an opportunity to have their voice heard, to be allowed to assent, to speak freely as a mark of our democracy," Mr Stanhope said.

"We do not muzzle dissent just because it might embarrass us or embarrass our friends.

"We hope our friendship can bear a little plain speaking."

with AAP



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Charioteer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2008 at 15:33
Originally posted by Leonidas Leonidas wrote:

are you kidding! still smoking that special stuff
 
thats what hongkong based Phoenixtv reported.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Charioteer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2008 at 16:08
Originally posted by Leonidas Leonidas wrote:

The Charioteer 'white australia' policy in action
 
domestic policy against foreign students?
 
anyway,
 
when the Australian prime minister Kevin Rudd made a formal apology to the Aboriginal people he acknowledged that the past policies towards the Aboriginal people were consistent failures.
 
the notorious "stolen generation" scheme was aimed at eliminating the "black Australia" of their culture and ethnic identities as Kevin Rudd also acknowledged.
 
the previous Australian government under the Liberal party continued to endorse discriminative policy and attitude towards indigenous people as John howard and his government continued to refuse to apologize.
 
Im rather optimistic about Kevin Rudd's government in handling of Australia's domestic racial relations. Labor has always been progressive on such matter, thats precisely why i voted for Kevin Rudd just as what i did with Kim beazley who weeped for "stolen generation" in the Australian parliament.
and Kevin Rudd didnt let me down when he acknowledges the past wrongs done to the indigenous population.
 
btw, according SBS radio Mandarin, there were staffs from the Australian department of Immigration dressed as civilians were apparently photographing the protesting crowd.
and their intention was in doubt among such discussions.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Charioteer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2008 at 16:15
Originally posted by Leonidas Leonidas wrote:

When I looked around there were three or four guys who I can only assume were Chinese who wanted to fight me.
 
ya right, we all witnessed how violent Tibetan mobsters and some pro-Tibetan protesters behaved.
 
need i to post the photos of their violence again?
 
keep your anti-Chinese racist attitude, now its not about the CCP, but its really about the Chinese as a people.
 
which is really generated by your distinct western chauvinsit character.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Charioteer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2008 at 16:43

oh btw im just curious, did you also vote Kevin Rudd knowing he would be open-minded and progressive on Aboriginal policy and to a large extent racial affairs in Australia?

i did cuz its not only because my personal experiences with racism in Australia, but most importantly i want the future of my children to be more secure and guaranteed, i hope they dont have to experience some of the unpleasant things that i have experienced.
 
and regarding racism in Australia, i arrived at age of 16, at least two of my Australian teachers at IEC cautioned new arrivals of racism as kind of reality in Australia, one teacher in his 60s i still could remember his name Mr Cook actually used Pauline hanson who at the time was making some news headlines as a reminder to us new arrivals that racism is reality in Australia, he also introduced us the history of Australian Aboriginal people, claiming the number of indigenous population dropped drastically after the arrival of the Europeans(Mr Cook is an European btw), and racist policies and attitude were enforced upon the Aboriginal people, he raised one of his arm to the shoulder level when he said there were the number of Aboriginal people, then lowered the arm to around his waist as he explained that the number of indigenous population dropped.
 
by then i know little English and had yet to encounter real racism(actually i did encounter certain form of racism but only at that time i still know nothing about its nature and reality, so i somewhat overlooked such until later time i begin to learn and understand the reality of 'white Australia'.
 
as i did encounter such and were shocked by some of the explicit racism during my subsequent life in Australia, i began to understand what the likes of Mr Cook was trying to enlighten the likes of us.
 
im grateful to man like him, and precisely because there are Australians like him, i remain ever hopeful and optimistic about the future of this country.
 
'white Australia' is a reality, i could offer some of my personal experiences but i dont think this shouldbe the thread to focus.


Edited by The Charioteer - 27-Apr-2008 at 16:52
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Charioteer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2008 at 17:46
Originally posted by Leonidas Leonidas wrote:

concur howver they did have a hand full on with some of the crowd
 
and you remain selective as ever, tell the audience there are no similar photos of Tibetan arrest by the police.
 
here let me help you
 
and you can show me any photos if the Olympic torch relay itself was acutally disrupted by protests like we witnessed during London or Paris relays.
 
and when i say the Australian police maintained order based on those principles, i did include "the right of dissenting voice to protest", remember?
 
Originally posted by Leonidas Leonidas wrote:

however only photo's like this make the cut for the Chinese press.
 
not really
 
 
 
 
sure, an anti-Chinese racist who is good at selective presentation against China and its people is bitching again about Chinese selectivity.
 
and thinks he is qualified at accusing others of hypocritical?


Edited by The Charioteer - 27-Apr-2008 at 17:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Charioteer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2008 at 17:59

and speaking of "objectivity" and "integrity of free press" of media in the "west".

theres  certainly reasons and examples for the audience to doubt, for instance here
 
Behind TV Analysts, Pentagonís Hidden Hand
 
 
btw i wrote that article for new york times.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Charioteer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2008 at 18:41
Originally posted by Leonidas Leonidas wrote:

can they protest the same way in Beijing and have the same choice of media sources?
 
these Chinese are showing their support for the Beijing Olympics, right? 
 
why would the communist government of China not allow the similar in Beijing?
 
Originally posted by leonidas leonidas wrote:

better still can Tibetans protest over there like Chinese over here? who is being hypocritical
 
like the recent "protests" in Tibet?
 
tell me if similar violent "protest" happens in Australia or any other country is acceptable for any government? how did American authority quell the 1992 Los Angeles riots or how did the French quell 2005 Paris riots?
 
you forget too soon that there are even arrests by the Australian police, despite the "protests" were largely described as "peaceful".
 
and compare the violent "protests" in recent "Tibet riot"?
 
how would the Australian federal police react to similar violent "protests" that one witnessed during recent "Tibet riot",  stand by and do nothing?
 
i doubt that would be the logic action given they even arrest "protesters" in a more "peaceful" environment like that of Canberra's.
 
but ofcourse you are known anti-Chinese racist from Australia, so the consistent exhibition of your racial bias is understandable.


Edited by The Charioteer - 27-Apr-2008 at 19:01
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