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    Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 06:55

I was wondering how many of the Whiter looking Indians are there in terms of numbers????

Does racism still exist between the groups, the ones with the much darker skin and the lighter coloured ones????
 
Did they ever fight wars against one another????
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rajput Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 09:23
Originally posted by machine

I was wondering how many of the Whiter looking Indians are there in terms of numbers????
 
Indo-Aryan 72%, Dravidian 25%, Mongoloid and other 3%   
 
Originally posted by machine

Did they ever fight wars against one another????
 
Supposedly the wars were fought initially between aryans and dravidians and then the indo-aryans and the sakas/hunas/parthians etc. (scythians/huns).  But, 2 of the hindu dieties are dravidian kings so there had to have been some sort of assimilation.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote machine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 09:59
 
72% mmmm thats alot, i thought it would have been a lot less than that.
Show me a picture that would signify what the common Indian-Aryan would loosely look like.
 
How common is Blonde-Brunette hair and variation in eye color.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rajput Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 10:43
Originally posted by machine

72% mmmm thats alot, i thought it would have been a lot less than that.  Show me a picture that would signify what the common Indian-Aryan would loosely look like.   How common is Blonde-Brunette hair and variation in eye color.
 
Indo-Aryans are a mixture of the indigenous people of eastern pakistan/india and those who crossed over the hind-kush. Aryavarta was their homeland; I say was because today the genetic makeup has considerably changed amongst many so you have dominant and recessive genes in the Indian population and their wars with invading huns, scythians and other tribes. 
 
 Blonde-Brunette is definitely there in north india but more interestingly it is even quite prominent amongst the indegenous population of northern India where blonde-brunette hair along with eye color variation is complimented with darker skin.
 
 


Edited by Rajput - 30-Jun-2006 at 10:48


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Post Options Post Options   Quote TeldeInduz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 12:32
Originally posted by Rajput

 Blonde-Brunette is definitely there in north india but more interestingly it is even quite prominent amongst the indegenous population of northern India where blonde-brunette hair along with eye color variation is complimented with darker skin.
 
There might be some with dark to mid brown hair, but there's no blondes in North India. The eye colour is definitely bullsh*t. I've never met an Indian with genuine blue or green eyes (the odd one might exist but this might have been from some randy British troops). The only people from the subcontinent I've met in real life with blue or green eyes on a fairly large scale (10-20%) from the subcontinent have been Pathans.
 
The 72% Aryan make up of India is just nonsense. I've seen that number on some website but they might be talking about language rather than ethnicity.


Edited by TeldeInduz - 30-Jun-2006 at 12:33
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rajput Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 14:04
LOL  somebody's jealous  btw its Indo-Aryan that make up 72% of the population.  Pathans = Offspring of raped punjabi women at the hands of the Pashtuns.
 
 


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Post Options Post Options   Quote TeldeInduz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 14:15
Originally posted by Rajput

LOL  somebody's jealous  btw its Indo-Aryan that make up 72% of the population.  Pathans = Offspring of raped punjabi women at the hands of the Pashtuns.
 
It's nothing to do with jealousy, I class my own eyes as brown, my grandfather has blue eyes, many of my cousins green eyes. You're the one who is trying to convince people that blue and green eyes are indigenous to North Indians. Never heard so much bullsh*t..it's the same as the Hindutva that claim man originated out of India.  
 
You keep thinking Pathans are that, you've proved your historical knowledge accuracy many times LOL 


Edited by TeldeInduz - 30-Jun-2006 at 14:25
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Vedam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 14:59
Teldeinduz brown hair and blue/grey eyes do exist in Jammu and Kashmir, Himachal Pradesh and Uttaranchal, but this because they are mountaneous areas not because of "Randy British soldiers" as you put it.
In Maharastra there is a Brahmin caste called "chitpavan" who have grey eyes so much so that they are called "cat eyes" 
But who care, i personally prefer jet black hair.
With regards to the Aryan make up of India, well India has a population of 1 billion, thats 1 in 6 people, so if lets say 20 % are Aryan that's 200 million.
Teldeinduz you should read my post on "something strange in Bollywood" page 6, as i explain about Peshawar Kapoors.
I have a kapoor Friend from Peshawar and  a khanna friend from Kabul, so it is "straight from the horses mouth" so to speak.
Khatris also have a very close relationship with my community, saraswati Brahmins.
Vedam
PS i speak always with respect, i am not intentionally offending.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TeldeInduz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 15:23
Originally posted by Vedam

Teldeinduz brown hair and blue/grey eyes do exist in Jammu and Kashmir,
 
I know for a fact blue and green eyes are very common in Gilgit, Northern Kashmir.
 
Jammu, possibly a couple, I'm not discounting Jammu, but I dont consider it North Indians anyway.
 
Himachal Pradesh and Uttaranchal, but this because they are mountaneous areas not because of "Randy British soldiers" as you put it.
 
I do not believe that the indigenous people (or even the average migrants) of Himachal Pradesh and Uttaranchal have blue or green eyes in any significant quantity. If you have pictures of people from Himachal Pradesh or Uttaranchal like you say then post them so I can see.
 
Pictures from Himachal Pradesh.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Uttaranchal
 
 
 
Again if you have pictures of what you say, then show them..I can post lots of pictures of people from Gilgit (Northern Kashmir) with blue or green eyes (I can post lots of Pathans if you like).
 
 
In Maharastra there is a Brahmin caste called "chitpavan" who have grey eyes so much so that they are called "cat eyes"
 
Chitpavans are from the Afghan border with Pakistan. They're not indigenous to India.
 
"The Chitpavan Brahmins of Maharashtra are often mentioned as a caste that stands out by its physical type.  Their slightly more “Nordic” build and the occurrence of blue eyes among them look like the perfect evidence for the theory that the Brahmins are the descendents of the Nordic Aryans who invaded India in 1500 BC.  In fact, it is only during the initial Islamic onslaught that the Chitpavans migrated from the Afghan borderland to their present habitat."
 
 
But who care, i personally prefer jet black hair.
 
This isnt the issue. I like green myself
 
With regards to the Aryan make up of India, well India has a population of 1 billion, thats 1 in 6 people, so if lets say 20 % are Aryan that's 200 million.
 
20% is a possibility though even that is a bit high in my opinion. But I take your point.
 
Teldeinduz you should read my post on "something strange in Bollywood" page 6, as i explain about Peshawar Kapoors.
 
Peshawar Kapoors are Pathans. I gave links from Raj Kapoor in which he says he is Pathan, not Khatri or Punjabi.
 
I have a kapoor Friend from Peshawar and  a khanna friend from Kabul, so it is "straight from the horses mouth" so to speak.
 
So do I strangely enough.
 
Khatris also have a very close relationship with my community, saraswati Brahmins.
 
Khatris are Punjabis from what i know. Never heard of Sarawasti Brahmins.


Edited by TeldeInduz - 30-Jun-2006 at 15:28
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RajputGirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 15:30

I've never met an Indian with genuine blue or green eyes (the odd one might exist but this might have been from some randy British troops). The only people from the subcontinent

So what?  I never met a green-eyed Pathan either, UNTIL I went to college.   The two Pathans in my highschool had black hair and dark eyes.  
 
 
 Before I went to college, did that give me the right to say that green-eyed Pathans didn't exist? 
 
No. 
 
 
We don't to get to meet every single person in the world.    A lot of things exist that we don't get to see.  


Edited by RajputGirl - 30-Jun-2006 at 15:31
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TeldeInduz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 15:41
Originally posted by RajputGirl

I've never met an Indian with genuine blue or green eyes (the odd one might exist but this might have been from some randy British troops). The only people from the subcontinent

So what?  I never met a green-eyed Pathan either, UNTIL I went to college.   The two Pathans in my highschool had black hair and dark eyes.  
 
 
 Before I went to college, did that give me the right to say that green-eyed Pathans didn't exist? 
 
No. 
 
 
We don't to get to meet every single person in the world.    A lot of things exist that we don't get to see.  
 
I'm not interested in "RateDesi" or such sites as some of the people on those sites use fake pictures or fake something else up, like most chat sites. If you have any pictures of North Indians as you say then post them here (poor people would be good, links would be great).


Edited by TeldeInduz - 30-Jun-2006 at 15:42
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RajputGirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 16:02

*Gone*

 
Teldeinduz was online and probably viewed the pic already.
 
 
I will see if my mom has any old pictures from her hometown, and see if I have any pics of old friends. 
 
The thing is is that eye color can be deceiving in pictures, just like pictures can make your skin color look different.    I got another friend with green eyes obviously won't show up in her black and white yearbook picture. 


Edited by RajputGirl - 30-Jun-2006 at 16:25
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RajputGirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 16:13
somebody's jealous  btw its Indo-Aryan that make up 72% of the population.  Pathans = Offspring of raped punjabi women at the hands of the Pashtuns.
 
This is what an Afghan guy told me.
 
 
PATHANS=FAKE PASHTUNS 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TeldeInduz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 16:24

A lot of Afghans say that Pathans are the term given to Punjabi Pathans. Pathan was coined by the British to refer to the Pashtuns. In Urdu people refer to Pashtuns as Pathans, and a lot of Pashtuns/Pathans in NWFP refer to themselves as Pathans when speaking English. I do not care what nationalist Afghans have to say of it.

As for the pic, I'd say hazel perhaps & with nice eyes. If you have more show them, but if you have any of an average to poor Indian in India with a link, that would be ideal. Older pictures from the 60s to 70s in India would be something worth seeing also
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RajputGirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 17:04
Oh yeah...here's this guy from Rajasthan
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rajput Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 17:18
Originally posted by TeldeInduz

A lot of Afghans say that Pathans are the term given to Punjabi Pathans. Pathan was coined by the British to refer to the Pashtuns.
 
No, Pathan was being coined throughout while the Afghan Pashtuns were raiding your lands and cupulating with your female ancestors; Telde when will you come out of your little hole and face the truth? 
 
 
Originally posted by Telde

I do not care what  nationalist Afghans have to say of it.As for the pic, I'd say hazel perhaps & with nice eyes. If you have more show them
 
LMAO!!!!! Telde you little perv from hazara hahahaha dude I know pathans all too well and you're just the epitomy of one, now go jack off to your lil paki mujra wali on youtube LOL
 
Now quit stalling as RajputGirl and I have put up some credible pics on here and there are more where those came from so im guessing % wise we're probably almost at par with the pakistanis in the % of dirty blonde and eye color variations.


Edited by Rajput - 30-Jun-2006 at 17:20


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Vedam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 18:20
Oh TeldeInduz i'm not going to get  into this Janab, do you think i go round taking pictures of fair skinned Indians.Smile
I am from near Simla originally In Himachal their are fair skinned ones there.
Why exactly is Jammu and Kashmir not North Indian? I'm sure as i gather you are Pathan you have heard of the Hindu kush, believe me we spread further then India punjab.
With regard to Chitpavans being not indegenious to India, what does that mean? a lot of the people in North India entered at various times ie Aryans, Kushana, Greek. Scytians, Huns, Mughals. You have a weak defence, its like someone saying i'm not English i'm Viking who came over from Sweden 1400 years agoSmile
With Kapoor i told you to read my post in "something strange about Bollywood" but if you want to get to technical they are actually from LLaypur (faisalabad).
I keep telling you everyone from Peshawar calls themselves Pathan.
I have Khatri relations, and kapoor is "pukka Khatri" they are one of the highest subsects. Read my post as i said.
Delhi is full of  Kapoor Khatris from Partition, i  have khatris relations and Saraswati Brahmins, originally located near the Saraswati river are the original Priests of Khatris of which Kapoor, Khanna, and Malhotra are the elite  Khatris.
Can you not see how ridiculous this is for me. Imagine if i was telling you that .. no you are wrong khans are khatris,  NOT PATHANS. Think about it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TeldeInduz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 19:35
Originally posted by RajputGirl

Oh yeah...here's this guy from Rajasthan
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
I am not denying that one or two Sikhs from Rajasthan are "Nordindid" - I've actually seen a picture of one with blue eyes to, I know that the odd one does exist. I just believe
  • that all these eyes are not indigenous to any of the Indian groups, they've come from the outside
  • that only a very small proportion of Indians have these features (by very I mean very very small proportion)

A racial classification of India would put a small proportion of Punjabi Sikhs and Brahmin Uttar Pradeshis as having the "Nordindid" features. _______________________________________________

Nordinid strain by definition
Another long-headed strain with comparatively lower but longer head and tall stature and possessing a long face and prominent narrow long nose. It its purest form it is found in the North-west Himalayan tribes like the Kaffirs and the Pathan where the skin colour is predominantly of a rosy white tint and an appreciable number have grey-blue eyes and chestnut hair. In the plains of Northern India, among the Sikhs of the Punjab and the Brahmin of the U.P. the skin colour changes to a light transparent brown. Here also there is a small proportion of people having light eyes and brownish hair. Among this type also the hair is usually straight and the pilous system well developed.
 
 
_______________________________________________
 
According to the above there are a small proportion of Sikhs from the Punjab and Brahmin from Uttar Pradesh, as opposed to an appreciable proportion of Pathans and Northern Kashmiris that have grey-blue eyes. It is up to you whether you believe this or not.
 
If you take into account what happened during partition, the Sikhs of the Punjab in what is modern day Pakistan all moved to the Punjab in India, so this small proportion of coloured eyes in modern day Indian Punjab amongst Sikhs actually originated in Pakistan - I suspect they mixed with some Westerly tribes while they ruled in Punjab (Sikhs controlled the Punjab for a while in the 17th, 18th centuries)
 
As for the Brahmin of Uttar Pradesh, I guess a small proportion of them do exist with the features you say, but I have looked at pictures of Brahmins from Uttar Pradesh and it must only be a small proportion as I cant find many pictures like they say, so the gene did not arise in that population. They've just come about through mixing.
 
Here's a couple of pictures of Uttar Pradesh Brahmins, and though in one of them they're definitely light skinned, you can see they dont seem to have those features.
 
 
 
 
%28JPEG%29 
 
 
My own theory is that like the Chipavan Brahmins of Maharashtra, these Brahmins and Punjabi Sikhs have had some contact with the Nordindid types from the Afghan borderland, or perhaps they came with the Aryans, either is a possibility, but if they came with the Aryans there'd be more Brahmins with Nordindid features since mixing of the Brahmins was limited. 
 
I'll need to look up Uttar Pradesh Brahmins, but they only represent about 0.4% of Indian society, and of these only a small proportion have Nordindid features.


Edited by TeldeInduz - 30-Jun-2006 at 19:48
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Hellenic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 20:19
I have found Indians to be very inherently insecure people especially when it comes to the issue of colour, looks though I think this has more to do with religion than actual fact. I remember some of my indian co-workers were quite extatic when I told them I would be visiting their country for business, having hung around them for quite some time I felt comfortable.  
 I then travelled to India & spent 6 weeks there,  it was an interesting trip but one that brought many surprises.  For one, the endemic poverty I saw was nothing like I had seen before(I had never seen people living and dying on the streets before), but secondly I got to see a whole range of what Indians look like as I travelled thru delhi, Kashmir, Hyderabad and the Calcutta.  I had seen posters for Indian movies before arriving but they looked nothing like the indians I was seeing & I can tell u quite frankly, that Indians rarely have any fair or coloured features suggestive of an Aryan legacy infact many border on an african skin tone though retaining large eyes and typical indian noses, so I think the analogy is more of a linguistic or cultural one. 
Infact, the majority of my co-workers who where sikhs(penjabi) where fairer(so to speak) and taller then the bulk of what I saw on my entire trip to India leading me to believe that only the those indians who fit the criteria of being fair/tall were immigrating to the west!(I know this seems extraordinary but this is what I honestly believed when I left India) I find it odd that the few odd ball or atypical individuals who have colored eyes or fair skin are taken as being 'normal' or representatice of/in India, which seems to be a projection of the caste system still very much present in India today.  I was often quite surprised, when Indians would throw themselves at my feet as they had never seen me(a whiteman) before.  I found it to be the worst type of degradation in human I had ever witnessed. Also, many times, I saw darker individuals pushed aside by other individuals(who in my eyes where equally as dark) because they felt themselves to be better?  then when I joined the line, I would be given first class treatment to the front of the line.
 People should be content with their skin tone, looks, regardless of wether its light or fair.  To project themselves as being something else is dishonest, misleading and most off all an inherent issue of self-esteem.  As some members in this thread keep stating that Indians are majority aryans(74%) i find that to be highly irresponsible.  If anything I would put it below 1-2% who are Aryan, and thats assuming that they are hidden in some remote corner of India as I didnt see them.  This thread seems to be promoting an innacurate and misleading assessment of India which is dishonest.  There's no shame in being Brown.  In the summer time, I too turn quite a dark shade of brown :)


Edited by Hellenic - 30-Jun-2006 at 20:25
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TeldeInduz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 20:25
Originally posted by Rajput

 
No, Pathan was being coined throughout while the Afghan Pashtuns were raiding your lands and cupulating with your female ancestors; Telde when will you come out of your little hole and face the truth? 
 
Pathan wasnt coined by anyone other than the British. NWFP was a part of Afghanistan for a while, and it's not anymore..that is about the extent of it, and now many Afghans have settled in NWFP since Soviet times. Not sure what truth you're referring to..
 
Originally posted by Rajput

LMAO!!!!! Telde you little perv from hazara hahahaha dude I know pathans all too well and you're just the epitomy of one, now go jack off to your lil paki mujra wali on youtube LOL 
 
Now quit stalling as RajputGirl and I have put up some credible pics on here and there are more where those came from so im guessing % wise we're probably almost at par with the pakistanis in the % of dirty blonde and eye color variations.
 
LOL That's so rich coming from a guy who searches for videos of the "Tawaif" on youtube..
 
I honestly thought you were Rajputgirl, but I could be wrong..no, I dont want you to prove it..
 
I do have a question though..why are you so hung up about proving that you have lots of blondes and blue/green eyes in your population. I admit Pathans are probably 10-20% Nordind, I really dont see how this is anything that requires proof. I just do not believe you that these features originated anywhere in India. For the record, I dont believe that the features originated in Afghan or Pakistan, I think it was a mass migration, but it is possible as Northern Pakistan, including NWFP can get bitterly cold in some areas.
_____________________________________________________
 
Originally posted by Vedam

Oh TeldeInduz i'm not going to get  into this Janab, do you think i go round taking pictures of fair skinned Indians.Smile
I am from near Simla originally In Himachal their are fair skinned ones there.
 
Fair skinned Indians definitely there's some.
 
Originally posted by Vedam

Why exactly is Jammu and Kashmir not North Indian? I'm sure as i gather you are Pathan you have heard of the Hindu kush, believe me we spread further then India punjab.
 
Jammu is South Eastern Kashmir, I agree those people are fairly light skinned. I dont consider Jammu to be Indian, I dont think it represents Indian people at all. If anything the people have more in common with Pakistan (I'm not suggesting Jammu should go to Pakistan, I dont really care much about Kashmir, I think it's better if it's sorted out quickly).
 
Originally posted by Vedam

With regard to Chitpavans being not indegenious to India, what does that mean? a lot of the people in North India entered at various times ie Aryans, Kushana, Greek. Scytians, Huns, Mughals. You have a weak defence, its like someone saying i'm not English i'm Viking who came over from Sweden 1400 years agoSmile 
 
I agree that there's a whole series of migrations that correspond to the features seen in countries, even in Pakistan. Perhaps 3000 years ago, my ancestors were in the Urals somewhere (I dont know I'm guessing). But I think the Chitpovans are just a break off of Pathans, they're an oddity in India, not a mass of people.
 
Your previous point about percentages in India meaning a lot of people is a good one, I agree with it. But I think even if you look at the actual figures there's not very many. Brahmins as an example form 4% of Indian society. Uttar Pradesh Brahmins form 0.4%. A small proportion of these have Nordid features, perhaps 0.04% of Indian society this means perhaps 400,000 with Nordindid features. There's perhaps 20% of Pathans in Pakistan with Nordindid features, so perhaps 4 million (total 20 million) amongst the Pathan population of Pakistan alone. Some Punjabis and Kashmiris (especially deep in Kashmir) also have Nordindid features, so I just think these features came from somewhere in modern day Pakistan - I know this will hurt the Hindutvists, but I like the sound of it Clap
 
Originally posted by Vedam

With Kapoor i told you to read my post in "something strange about Bollywood" but if you want to get to technical they are actually from LLaypur (faisalabad).
 
There's mixing perhaps for sure, and nowadays the filmstar Kapoors are thoroughly mixed. But the Kapoors are definitely Pathans. I have the reference somewhere, I'll find it for you.
 
Originally posted by Vedam

I keep telling you everyone from Peshawar calls themselves Pathan.
 
Most people in Peshawar are Pathans, but if a Punjabi is in Peshawar, on his return do you think he will still call himself Pathan? To be fair, I know some Indian Muslims do call themselves Pathan and they're clearly not, but it's not a restricted label.
 
Originally posted by Vedam

I have Khatri relations, and kapoor is "pukka Khatri" they are one of the highest subsects. Read my post as i said.
Delhi is full of  Kapoor Khatris from Partition, i  have khatris relations and Saraswati Brahmins, originally located near the Saraswati river are the original Priests of Khatris of which Kapoor, Khanna, and Malhotra are the elite  Khatris.
 
Khatris are Punjabi, not Pathan. That is how I define it. Can you give me a link for the Khatri Kapoors also?
 
Originally posted by Vedam

Can you not see how ridiculous this is for me. Imagine if i was telling you that .. no you are wrong khans are khatris,  NOT PATHANS. Think about it.
 
The surname "Khan" is not restricted to Pathans. Some heavily mixed people retain the name, and some even use it. 
Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre.................
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