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Forum LockedArabain Gulf old Maps?!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2007 at 07:14
I don't understand very well what do you want to say, that Persia derive from Pars and Parthia from Part? Question

I only know that in the map of Azimuth "Pars" is the continuation of the phrase "African pars", and this phrase is broken by the legend "Turcici Imperii Imago", and that you said "look, Egypt is Pars", when is clear a mistake of understanding of you not of the map, like you insinuate making a comparation with "Sinus Arabic" wich is a correct name according with the map.




What so confused paragraph i have writen  now Wacko
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2007 at 12:05
i dont know what made you all ( Zagros, sirius99, Cyrus and Ikki) ASSUMED that iam trying to say that the correct name is Arabian gulf and Persian Gulf is false ??
 
where did i point that ?
 
my point is cleary stated in my previous post below
 
Originally posted by azimuth azimuth wrote:

so from that

 
the term Arabian Gulf is not an invention of the 1960s, it did exist before that for the Persian gulf. 
 
some articles in wikipedia needs modification Big%20smile
 
-----
 
also we need to add more to the terms that gulf had through history
 
1- lower sea
2- the sea from where the sun rises
3-the bitter sea
4- the persian gulf
5-the arabian gulf
6- the sea elcatif
7- the basra gulf
 
7 names so far and the most famouse and widely used now offcourse is the persian gulf, arabian gulf started to be used again after 1960s by arab countries.
 
 
 
to whom who are not familier with the issue,
 
there has been and still lots of tension on the internet between iranians and anybody who uses the term Arabian Gulf as a name for the gulf between Iran and Arabian peninsula, they have the right to defend what they want BUT they went far and tring to change historical facts by denying the existance of Other names the gulf had though history!! also claiming that the term Arabian Gulf is a new invention made in the 1960s.
 
my whole point is that the persian/arabian gulf had and still have different names and denying them is denying Facts and sinking in a baseless nationalisitc propaganda.
 
 
 
-----------------
 
in an older thread i also did put my position of the terms http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6127
 
and that was before knowing that that gulf been called Arabian before 1960, yet still my point is the same.
Smile


Edited by azimuth - 02-Feb-2007 at 12:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2007 at 15:17

Of course they are accurate.

The whole gulf name stuff is just another attempt to distort Arab history. There are people that have been trying to destroy Arab history by trying to show that Arabs only got out of their tents 50 years ago and started to spend the oil money and the hush money sheiks received from the US to build big buildings.

Arabs have no reason to have any kind of history/heritage complex because Arabs have the longest history in the world going back at least 100000 years ago. In fact Adam and Noah were Arabs themself. Here is the source

 
denying this fact is also sinking in a baseless nationalistic propaganda
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aktufe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2007 at 15:23
you're sarcastic right?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2007 at 15:39
Originally posted by Ikki Ikki wrote:

I don't understand very well what do you want to say, that Persia derive from Pars and Parthia from Part? Question

I only know that in the map of Azimuth "Pars" is the continuation of the phrase "African pars", and this phrase is broken by the legend "Turcici Imperii Imago", and that you said "look, Egypt is Pars", when is clear a mistake of understanding of you not of the map, like you insinuate making a comparation with "Sinus Arabic" wich is a correct name according with the map.




What so confused paragraph i have writen  now Wacko
 
You are right, I made mistake but I just wanted to mention that "Pars" also means "Portion" in Persian language.
 
 
Azimuth, we know most of the peoples who live in both the southern and northern coasts of the Persian gulf are Arabs, so it is not strange if they call it "Arabian Gulf" but the strange thing is that they expect other peoples do the same and ignore the historical facts and evidences.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2007 at 15:44
Originally posted by azimuth azimuth wrote:

i dont know what made you all ( Zagros, sirius99, Cyrus and Ikki) ASSUMED that iam trying to say that the correct name is Arabian gulf and Persian Gulf is false ??
 
where did i point that ?
 
my point is cleary stated in my previous post below
 
Smile


ah OK, i understand now your point, i thought that you was saying that the original name was Arabic Gulf and that is not the matter, the question is that the Persian Gulf is called too Arabic at least from certain time and some people. Well, personally i think that Persian is more acurate, but that don't exclude the fact that Arabic is a real name and should be considerated, like many others places of the world in the same situation, think about Germany wich have a lot of names. But, an important "but" to this if: if we are talking about a name born 40 years ago, i can't agree because will be clearly a question of nationalism not custom.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2007 at 15:46
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Cyrus Shahmiri wrote:

"Pars" also means "Portion" in Persian language.
 
 


Another indoeuropean connection?? Interesting never hear about it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2007 at 15:53
Originally posted by hani hani wrote:

Of course they are accurate.

The whole gulf name stuff is just another attempt to distort Arab history. There are people that have been trying to destroy Arab history by trying to show that Arabs only got out of their tents 50 years ago and started to spend the oil money and the hush money sheiks received from the US to build big buildings.

Arabs have no reason to have any kind of history/heritage complex because Arabs have the longest history in the world going back at least 100000 years ago. In fact Adam and Noah were Arabs themself. Here is the source

 
denying this fact is also sinking in a baseless nationalistic propaganda
 
 


You can be sure about one thing: since the rise of the Islam, of all the non europeans civilizations, there is no one, hear carefully, no one other wich we in Europe study with greatest interest than arabic, and expanding, islamic in general; understand that when i studied in the university the manuals about Middle Age had 1/3 for the islamic cultures, 1/2 if we are talking about the cultures of Near East in Ancient Times. Leave that victimist actitude and don't begin any nationalist flame war in this forum, please.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xshayathiya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Feb-2007 at 21:11
Originally posted by hani hani wrote:

Arabs have no reason to have any kind of history/heritage complex because Arabs have the longest history in the world going back at least 100000 years ago.
 
umm....uh.....so Arabic history begins in the Paleolithic period, before humanity developed language? Very interesting.
"I like rice. Rice is great if you are hungry and want 2000 of something." - Mitch Hedberg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheGame Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2007 at 15:19
These maps are forgeries. All the texts that go along with these maps say Persian Gulf, a fact that the creator of that site leaves out on purpose. This is especially true of Mercator, who uses the term Persian Gulf in all of his text.

Look at the map dated 1740 by Jacques Nicolas Bellin, it clearly says Persian Gulf in the bottom left corner, and this idiot put it on his "Arabian Gulf Maps" webpage...LOL

This is just another rich Arab racist Sheikh with money to throw around.

That site is misleading and full of forgeries. The creator obviously leave out key facts on purpose, such as the fact that Mercator used the term Persian Gulf in all of his texts, not Arabian Gulf.




Edited by TheGame - 04-Feb-2007 at 15:23
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2007 at 02:02
these maps are not made by mercator alone, and i already gave you other sites ( not arabic) which have some of the maps on that site.
 
these maps are facts as the other names the gulf had before and after Persian Gulf being used.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shinai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2007 at 18:00

Most of the people around persian gulf  are arabs even in Iranian sides.So Arabs also  have the same right as Iranian do to call the gulf whatever they like. There is no  need to be so sensetive. There are many places with two diffrent names.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheGame Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2007 at 23:07
Originally posted by shinai shinai wrote:

Most of the people around persian gulf  are arabs even in Iranian sides.So Arabs also  have the same right as Iranian do to call the gulf whatever they like. There is no  need to be so sensetive. There are many places with two diffrent names.



Thats not the point, and there are several things wrong with your statement.

a) yes, I'm sure there are Arabs on both sides of the Persian Gulf, and it goes the other way around, there are also Persians and Persian descendants on both sides of the Persian Gulf. Infact, the number of people of Iranian or Persian descent on the Arabian side of the Persian Gulf probably outnumber the Arabs that live on the Iranian side.

This goes to show that it is not where a people live that decides names. For example, why is the Indian Ocean called the Indian Ocean, why is the Arabian Sea called the Arabian Sea, and why is the Gulf of Oman called the Gulf of Oman?

b) International bodies of water are not subjected to the rules of local bodies of water. The UN says that when two or more countries share a body of water, they can each use whatever name they want and that should be respected.

This is the case for the Shatt al-Arab/Arvandrud, where it is owned solely by Iran and Iraq evenly, therefore, each have rights to name it.

However, the Persian Gulf is an international body of water, not owned by any one country. International bodies of water are not subject to be named whatever a certain people/country please. If that was so, map makers would be dealing with a chaotic world.

Originally posted by azimuth azimuth wrote:

these maps are not made by mercator alone, and i already gave you other sites ( not arabic) which have some of the maps on that site.
 
these maps are facts as the other names the gulf had before and after Persian Gulf being used.
 
 


No offense, but these Arab governments have been known to fabricate information along with using their money when it comes to the Persian Gulf.

As far as I'm concerned, this map containing one forgery is enough to discredit the entire site, and all of its other maps.



Edited by TheGame - 05-Feb-2007 at 23:10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kajdom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Feb-2007 at 00:19
Originally posted by shinai shinai wrote:

Most of the people around persian gulf  are arabs even in Iranian sides.So Arabs also  have the same right as Iranian do to call the gulf whatever they like. There is no  need to be so sensetive. There are many places with two diffrent names.



The reality is not that easy. just try change for example gulf of oman or arabian sea to Persian or Iranian sea and you can see their reaction. specially If you trying to convince other nations to call that and use fake maps to back up your claim that gonna blow up whole arabian nation. for other attempt you can change name of Indian ocean to pakistani ocean or african ocean and watch indian reaction. this is natural.


Edited by kajdom - 06-Feb-2007 at 00:19
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maziar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Feb-2007 at 11:45
Originally posted by azimuth azimuth wrote:

i dont know what made you all ( Zagros, sirius99, Cyrus and Ikki) ASSUMED that iam trying to say that the correct name is Arabian gulf and Persian Gulf is false ??
 
where did i point that ?
 
my point is cleary stated in my previous post below
 
Originally posted by azimuth azimuth wrote:

so from that

 
the term Arabian Gulf is not an invention of the 1960s, it did exist before that for the Persian gulf. 
 
some articles in wikipedia needs modification Big%20smile
 
-----
 
also we need to add more to the terms that gulf had through history
 
1- lower sea
2- the sea from where the sun rises
3-the bitter sea
4- the persian gulf
5-the arabian gulf
6- the sea elcatif
7- the basra gulf
 
7 names so far and the most famouse and widely used now offcourse is the persian gulf, arabian gulf started to be used again after 1960s by arab countries.
 
 
 
to whom who are not familier with the issue,
 
there has been and still lots of tension on the internet between iranians and anybody who uses the term Arabian Gulf as a name for the gulf between Iran and Arabian peninsula, they have the right to defend what they want BUT they went far and tring to change historical facts by denying the existance of Other names the gulf had though history!! also claiming that the term Arabian Gulf is a new invention made in the 1960s.
 
my whole point is that the persian/arabian gulf had and still have different names and denying them is denying Facts and sinking in a baseless nationalisitc propaganda.
 
 
 
-----------------
 
in an older thread i also did put my position of the terms http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6127
 
and that was before knowing that that gulf been called Arabian before 1960, yet still my point is the same.
Smile
 
Ok Azimuth tell me which one of your claims we should believe?
 
This:
 
Quote
i dont know what made you all ( Zagros, sirius99, Cyrus and Ikki) ASSUMED that iam trying to say that the correct name is Arabian gulf and Persian Gulf is false ??
 
where did i point that ?
 
or this:
Quote the term Arabian Gulf is not an invention of the 1960s, it did exist before that for the Persian gulf.
arabian gulf started to be used again after 1960s by arab countries
 
You see the problem? now please explain.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Feb-2007 at 12:02
Originally posted by shinai shinai wrote:

Most of the people around persian gulf  are arabs even in Iranian sides.So Arabs also  have the same right as Iranian do to call the gulf whatever they like. There is no  need to be so sensetive. There are many places with two diffrent names.



You have to understand that the Gulf Arabs are trying to change the internationally recognised name of the Persian Gulf for political reasons. They even called it Persian Gulf themselves before their British overlords gave them the task of starting conflict with Iran in the late 60s.

The reason why Persian Gulf has stuck is because Persia (as it was known in the West) was the dominant power of the region - in the middle ages there was no Arab state to speak of, so it was natural that the Gulf be referred to as the Persian Gulf by the overwhelming majority of European cartographer and explorers which refers to the country that owned land on both sides of it. So persian Gulf refers to the land and empire of Persia (Iran), not the people of Persia (Persians).

That not withstanding, ther eare even older records which refer to the Gulf as Persian such as Ptolemy's maps and, ironically, Caliphate era maps...


Edited by Zagros - 06-Feb-2007 at 19:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheGame Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Feb-2007 at 19:06
Originally posted by kajdom kajdom wrote:

Originally posted by shinai shinai wrote:

Most of the people around persian gulf  are arabs even in Iranian sides.So Arabs also  have the same right as Iranian do to call the gulf whatever they like. There is no  need to be so sensetive. There are many places with two diffrent names.



The reality is not that easy. just try change for example gulf of oman or arabian sea to Persian or Iranian sea and you can see their reaction. specially If you trying to convince other nations to call that and use fake maps to back up your claim that gonna blow up whole arabian nation. for other attempt you can change name of Indian ocean to pakistani ocean or african ocean and watch indian reaction. this is natural.


Yes, exactly. There are even some maps showing the Arabian Sea as the Persian Sea, how would these Arabs react if we took their name off of the sea?

The bottom line is that this boils down to racism and hatred against Iran.
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