History Community ~ All Empires Homepage


This is the Archive on WORLD Historia, the old original forum.

 You cannot post here - you can only read.

 

Here is the link to the new forum:

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Forum Lockedan Arab.

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
Infidel View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 19-Dec-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Status: Offline
Points: 692
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2005 at 18:44

I think the arabs are nice people. They were once a big civilization, with many contributions to the sciences like mathematics, astronomy, etc.

I, myself, am a big fan of the Moorish period in the Iberian Peninsula!

An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur?
Back to Top
ihsan View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 06-Aug-2004
Location: Turkey
Status: Offline
Points: 831
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2005 at 16:33

Azimuth, we did that back in the 1930s, the Arabs did it two decades later.

HulaguHan, what does Hulagu's invasion has got anything to do with Arabs to hate the Turks? Hulagu/Hülegü was a Mongol, not a Turk

[IMG]http://img50.exs.cx/img50/6148/ger3.jpg">

Qaghan of the Vast Steppes

Steppes History Forum
Back to Top
azimuth View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar
SlaYer'S SlaYer

Joined: 12-Dec-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Status: Offline
Points: 2983
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2005 at 22:31
Originally posted by ihsan ihsan wrote:

Azimuth, we did that back in the 1930s, the Arabs did it two decades later.

yes but was it in the same volum?

there was alot of Turkish words in the Slang language of egyptians but not as much in the official read and write papers and news. i guess they took out the words like Basha, Afandi and Baik. more like titles

but the Arabic words Turkish deleted from their language are alot may be more than the spanish, but still they never could take Arabic completely from the language it still there with a very good percentage.

i dont know may be they couldent find a replacment for alot of words or they just thought that the remaining words are acully turkish!!

i wonder how it was before, i guess if i was there at that time before the changing i would understand more than 70%.

 

 

Back to Top
HulaguHan View Drop Down
Suspended
Suspended
Avatar

Joined: 26-Jan-2005
Location: Turkey
Status: Offline
Points: 370
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2005 at 23:10

@ Ihsan

What is the real difference between a Mongol and a Turk? mongols today are not muslim, is this our criteria?

Unlike the Turkish-islamist historians of Turkey, arabs consider Turks as Mongols, which is a definite statement. Mongoloid tribes are a dozen tribes from the thousands of different Turkic tribes. And also arabs do not like their white slaves to take control in Egypt (Mamelukes). Tugrul Bey (Toghril Beg) comes to Baghdad and night enters their world . This is how they educate themselves.

@ Diplomat

No Turk hates Arabs because we do not have an inferiority complex.

I noticed a sentence of yours: "western decision-makers in order to stop a possible complete co-operation between Persians ,Turks and Arabs"

Always conpiracy theories, yes there are 20.000 Jewish babies were born in an Italian hospital in Urfa. Probably those kids will grew up and create a war between Iran , Turkey and arabic countries.

Did western decision makers forced umayyads to try to enter Turkic world but pushed back by Turgish and Gokturk Empires? Did western decision makers forced Samanids to attack Ghaznavid tribes? Or did they provocate Karahanlis, Seljuks, Karahitai, Mongol, Ottoman, Timurid tribes to wipe clean the arabic and persian world? Do you even know what Mameluke means? White slaves...

No country can be a strategical friend to another in this world. Turks can only cooperate with Turks. That' s it. And as a Turkish, I would not feel myself comfortable if I have an ally of which have 300 million population but got beaten by 4 million Israeli.

@ Turk

You say in some areas, lets preserve original things, OK. Then lets study in universities in English, so that we can say bye bye to our language to be a scientific language. Come on man, I am not talking about making it more beautiful, I am trying to preserve our culture.

Cengiz Kagan' s Kaganate, used the captive tribes as soldiers like any of the middle asian nomadic Turkic tribes such as Gokturks, Uighurs, Huns. There are many tribes and one man comes to power, rest of the men is his slaves. This is the structure of an Empire.

I could not read HUlagu' s mother to be a Christian in any of my books (Rene Grousset and Kamuran Gurun), can you give me the source of it so that I will have a wider perspective.



Edited by HulaguHan
Back to Top
HulaguHan View Drop Down
Suspended
Suspended
Avatar

Joined: 26-Jan-2005
Location: Turkey
Status: Offline
Points: 370
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2005 at 23:28

@ Azimuth

We have never tried to clean arabic words from our language. Actually language was mostly dominated by Persian. As for me, I would not want to clean all of the arabic words who became an ordinary Turkish word. In those times, we just tried to regenerate our pure Turkish language and that was very difficult because we Turks are easy for cultural deformation. Turkish language even in the field of religion is still dominated with Persian. We call peygamber (Persian word) for instance, not resul ( Prophet in Arabic).

Ordinary people never talked the language been talked in the palace, that was one of the advantages.

For the alphabet, we used the arabic alphabet but in the style of Persian. That is why no arab understood even the writings in Ottoman times.

I would want Turkish as the languages of both worhipping and education because, a country who forgets his language is doomed to fail.

Ottoman Empire crashed rapidly because of that. When the beloved Greeks and Serbians of Empire left the government, they turned back to Turks living in Anatolia who was left to its fate for centuries. Ataturk tried to change that. Anatolia was the poorest and most illiteral region of the empire. All of the independence war generals and high ranking officers were from European provinces. Only Ismet Pasa was born in Izmir. That was the situation in those days. Ottoman Empire was strong, OK, but Anatolia? After Battle of Ankara actually, the trust of Ottoman Dynasty to the Turks started declining. In the times of Mehmet the Conqueror, Turks forgot the control positions of the empire. But do not get me wrong, I admire Imperium Ottomanum, LOL , let me talk in foreign languages too.

And the interesting thing is Ezan in Arabic is actually a crime according to our laws. No announcement can be done in a language different than Turkish.



Edited by HulaguHan
Back to Top
Bosnjo View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 29-Jan-2005
Location: Bosnia Hercegovina
Status: Offline
Points: 105
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2005 at 17:50

I know both people, and I would say rather Turks hate Arabs, as Arabs hate Turks, the turks are one of the most racialist peopel i have ever met. 

 

In Bosnia are Iranians most loved people.

 

Arabs not so, because a lot of them who are in Bosnia are Salaphis/Wahabis, for us Hanefis are the Shias nearer then the Salaphis, although they are Sunis like us. 

Arabic languages sounds for me like Hebrew, and both sounds uncredibly terrible.

Back to Top
Shafi View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 31-Jan-2005
Location: Neutral Zone
Status: Offline
Points: 0
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Feb-2005 at 02:39

Originally posted by Bosnjo Bosnjo wrote:

In Bosnia are Iranians most loved people.

Arabs not so, because a lot of them who are in Bosnia are Salaphis/Wahabis, for us Hanefis are the Shias nearer then the Salaphis, although they are Sunis like us. 

As talking about Arabs, Arabs are a big nation. And exactly like other nations, we can find the good and bad, the brilliant and the stupid ..

Islam came with the perfect and the humanitarian code of ethics and life .. And the obligation level of the people is varying in every nation " not only Arabs" ..

As for Bosnjo opinion in some Arabs, with all respect to him, but it is unfair to judge all Arab Kind to be exactly like the people you might faced or dealt with in Bosnia ..

The extremists are representing a weird and repulsive specimen, wither they are Arabs, Iranians, Europeans, Asian, or any nation ...

Talking about Iranians to be lovely !! When I see what the Shie'eis Iranians bloody ceremonies in Ashoora through CNN, I really feel sad for the spoiled image that they represent for the whole universe because of their fully incorrect understating for Islam !!

I beleive the Shie'eis Iranians are the most denominational and bigoted for thier ideology than other Muslims ..

I'm not saying that because of being Arabic, but the Arabs are one of the noblest, and most humanitarian nations in the world , with the exception of the weird cases that could occur in any nation "Not only Arabs" ...

We should not forget the fact that some western media and biased people worked and still work to deform the overall Image of Arabs in the world by focusing only on their disadvantages without showing even a bit of the big positive side of Arabs life...



Edited by Shafi
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Feb-2005 at 08:13

First of all, I want to say that Arabic and Jewish languages of Samitic family are very complicated and developed languages. They are read from inner mouth and not so kindly, but these two languages are useful for creating new words on special word moulds. They have some voices to add in the beginnig of a word and to the end of a word. So they are also creative for new invented objects, and science. But their language is complicated needles, so not very useful I think...

Arabs also had lots of famous scientists and philosphers in history. They expanded the borders of Islam from Hejaz to Iberia and western africa in west, Turkestan, Amu Derya and India in East. They have an old culture of middle east and from ancient civilisations. And they found themselves an important position in history...

But the main reason that they dont look very symphatic to Turks is mainly because of their historical treasons (ihanah). One of the most known ones are the happenings during WWI. The Ottoman Empire was weak and the non Muslim nations were declaring their independence one after other. The only hope in the empire was the trustful unification of Arabs, living under Ottoman rule, to join them and show the British and French forces the strength of an Islamic union. The empire was built open some principles, and one of the most important ones was to unite all Muslims under their rule. So, they didnT differ and cathegorize people according to their nation, but their religious beliefs such as "Muslims" and "GayriMuslims". The Arabs were always equal to the Turks and other Muslim nations under the rule and had their rights peacefully...

But their greed of independence and get rid of those who were once "the white slaves of Amu Darya" ruling them for hundreds of years caused a disgusting image to Christian world. While they were uniting against Muslims to kick them from Europe with "Evolutinary Propogandas" and unions of new age "crusades", the Muslims were seperating one by one, fighting each other and rebelling with English and French forces against theirSultans...

And about the language issue,

I think none of the Arabs could understand the Ottoman Turkish even a bit. Because the Arabic words used in Ottoman Turkish were different from their original structures. For ex: melleyah (arabic) - Milliyet (Ottoman Turkish) Also their accents were TOTALLY different. These Arabic words were spelled much more kindly and similar to Turkish by Ottomans. In fact, these arabic words mostly influenced the language of the palace and Istanbul language. The Oguz people of Anatolia didnt speak like them, and even couldnt understand the poems of this class of people. They were two different languages, but not only because of the Arabic influence on "palace language". They also had different spelling and pronounciation. They used an Arabic influenced language in science and a Persian influenced language in literature...

But the main point is, Anatolian Turkish was always pure and different from Istanbul language. But I think thecomplicated language spoken in Istanbul can be defined as a different gramered Turkish influenced with changed Arabic and Persian words between the people living nearby the palace and Istanbul. This is called Ottoman. But the Oguz people of Anatolia always spoke Turkish. There also made a language reform by Ataturk. He found the Turkish Language Organisation and got rid of most of the Arabic and Persian words in "Istanbul langage". He preferred to use the existing Turkish words and new formed Turkish words instead of the Arabic and Persian ones. But the Persian ones were also the Islamic language of Anatolian Turks( ex: namaz-oruç-peygamber...), so they are still used (because Turks learned Islam from Persians)... 

About Arabs being hospitable,

They are generally hospitable people, but I think they lerned it from us ...



Edited by Oguzoglu
Back to Top
Bosnjo View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 29-Jan-2005
Location: Bosnia Hercegovina
Status: Offline
Points: 105
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Feb-2005 at 14:28

----As talking about Arabs, Arabs are a big nation. And exactly like other nations, we can find the good and bad, the brilliant and the stupid ...

Islam came with the perfect and the humanitarian code of ethics and life .. And the obligation level of the people is varying in every nation " not only Arabs" ..

----As for Bosnjo opinion in some Arabs, with all respect to him, but it is unfair to judge all Arab Kind to be exactly like the people you might faced or dealt with in Bosnia .. ----

 

Yes I know, there are big differences from region to region and from man to man. I wanted only to say that Arabs who are staying in Bosnia are mostly Wahabis and like bosnian Wahabis they are not popular at all.

 

----Talking about Iranians to be lovely !! When I see what the Shie'eis Iranians bloody ceremonies in Ashoora through CNN, I really feel sad for the spoiled image that they represent for the whole universe because of their fully incorrect understating for Islam !!----

Yes but since the Islamic Revolution, is this forbidden in Iran, and in Iraq was a calling of clerics not do to such things.

---I beleive the Shie'eis Iranians are the most denominational and bigoted for thier ideology than other Muslims ..----

Myself,( I was realy religious, today I am not ) i am  from a Sunni Background, I would say that if a sektion of islam is truest, then is it the Shia. They never kommitted Mass Murder or Slavetrades, what Sunnis did, or do. So they are the nobelst people in the World.

----I'm not saying that because of being Arabic, but the Arabs are one of the noblest, and most humanitarian nations in the world , with the exception of the weird cases that could occur in any nation "Not only Arabs" ...---

I disagree with this statement, look at Darfur or on the Slave Trade, with blacks committed by arabs.

---We should not forget the fact that some western media and biased people worked and still work to deform the overall Image of Arabs in the world by focusing only on their disadvantages without showing even a bit of the big positive side of Arabs life...---

Yes, especially the Palestine conlfict and Iraq are not fair covered. They Show only one aspect of the turth, and many TV Stations belong to a ethnical group, which do not like muslims at all.



Edited by Bosnjo
I am heavely armed, entirely sick and extremly nationalistic.
Back to Top
Bosnjo View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 29-Jan-2005
Location: Bosnia Hercegovina
Status: Offline
Points: 105
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Feb-2005 at 14:39

 

---. They have an old culture of middle east and from ancient civilisations. And they found themselves an important position in history...---

That doubts nobody, but who cares about Centuries for the Now you need only one century and that was full of arabic mistakes and failures.

 

---But their greed of independence and get rid of those who were once "the white slaves of Amu Darya" ruling them for hundreds of years caused a disgusting image to Christian world. While they were uniting against Muslims to kick them from Europe with "Evolutinary Propogandas" and unions of new age "crusades", the Muslims were seperating one by one, fighting each other and rebelling with English and French forces against theirSultans...----

This time period was their biggest mistake, and that is the reason why we and especially the arabs are so backward, the idiots(not all arabs, the one who collaborated with the Westerners) destroyed Railways, Telegraphic system and Power Plants, which the Ottomans built up.

The Ottoman Empire Controlled a region which gots after ww1, the most important Region in the World, because the region is oilrich, and  if you controll the oil, you controll the hole World. Imagine that would belong to an Islamic Union.



Edited by Bosnjo
I am heavely armed, entirely sick and extremly nationalistic.
Back to Top
Shafi View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 31-Jan-2005
Location: Neutral Zone
Status: Offline
Points: 0
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Feb-2005 at 06:08
 

Yes I know, there are big differences from region to region and from man to man. I wanted only to say that Arabs who are staying in Bosnia are mostly Wahabis and like bosnian Wahabis they are not popular at all.

This is your personal point of view, about a limited segment that not represent all Arabs ..

Yes but since the Islamic Revolution, is this forbidden in Iran, and in Iraq was a calling of clerics not do to such things.

That is only to enhance the bad image of Shia in the media, they still doing their bloody and disgusting deeds in Ashoora .. You can refer to the TV to see (not hear) the real picture ...

They never kommitted Mass Murder or Slavetrades, what Sunnis did, or do. So they are the nobelst people in the World.

It is unfair and unrealistic to judge all the Sunnis for the mistakes of a small segment of them ...  The gangs that doing Mass Murder and other Crimes are doing so because of their distorted mind and wrong understanding for Islam ..

By the way, Slave Trades are forbidden by the governments and I didn't hear any such thing except in Sinbad and Aladdin stories ...

Moreover, I have no comment on the claim that " Shia are the noblest people in the world" ...

And the nobility and ethics are not restricted to a certain ethnic or religion or ideology ..

I disagree with this statement, look at Darfur or on the Slave Trade, with blacks committed by arabs.

And what is the relation between Arabs and Darfur and Slave Trade ?

Do you know the entities involved in Darfor conflict ?

They are the Suddanies them selves which all are from black origins.. all of  the same ethnicity ..

And on the other hand, I'm really sorry that some people are still seeing Arabs as Masters, Slaver Traders, Greediest people ..

The prophet Mohammed PBUH said " There is no difference between an Arabic and Non Arabic except in the piety" ..

It might be because seeing Arabs only from Walt Desiny point of view ...

Back to Top
ihsan View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 06-Aug-2004
Location: Turkey
Status: Offline
Points: 831
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Feb-2005 at 10:30

Bosnjo, Turks are one of the most racist people? Iranians are lovely? Oh boy...

I think you are doing nothing but invitgn trouble here.

[IMG]http://img50.exs.cx/img50/6148/ger3.jpg">

Qaghan of the Vast Steppes

Steppes History Forum
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.063 seconds.