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Forum LockedAmazonian cities

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2009 at 14:10
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

There is a problem of concepts and ideals in here. From the moment natives get contacted it is impossible to reverse to particular ways of living. The sooner natives are vaccinated, educated, and empowered with the skills of western knowledge, the best chance they have to survive and to prosperate.
 
Yes they cannot always reverce to a particular way of living but they must be able to keep their own lands and descide by themselves how they will form their community and shape their future.
As it is now they are many times just robbed of their land and ending up in deep misery.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2009 at 14:20
I agree on that. But take the big picture. Natives today are the fastest growing group in Brazil and have a lot more power than once. It is all part of the painfull change to addapt to "modernity".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2009 at 14:27
Change is unavoidable, but it must be a change to the better, otherwise it is not much meaning with it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2009 at 14:29
 
Hmmm....it seems that we drifted far away from the original topic of Amazonian cities.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2009 at 17:37
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Change is unavoidable, but it must be a change to the better, otherwise it is not much meaning with it.
 
"better" is just an abstract criteria. How you measure it? The poors in the favela maybe better than people starving in Africa.
 
In fact, all over the Americas, from Canada to Chile, Amerindians are leaving to reserves and going to the cities, where they have the opportunity to get highers income of living. It is better? Perhaps not. However, nobody forces people to move.
 
And for your precious environment, it is better to have millions of people living in cities that destroying the wilderness.
 
Besides, how you can compare the degree of urbanism that have Latin America, and the social problems of large populations, where an average major city start in 5 million people, and ends in 30 millions, with the problems of countries like Sweeden, which only has large towns.


Edited by pinguin - 19-May-2009 at 17:37
"He who attempts to count the stars, not even knowing how to count the knots of the 'quipus'(counting string), ought to be held in derision."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2009 at 18:23
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

 
"better" is just an abstract criteria. How you measure it? The poors in the favela maybe better than people starving in Africa.
 
One must look in to different cases separately but a good rule is to listen to what the indigenous peoples themselves think in this matter.
 
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

 
Besides, how you can compare the degree of urbanism that have Latin America, and the social problems of large populations, where an average major city start in 5 million people, and ends in 30 millions, with the problems of countries like Sweeden, which only has large towns.
 
Not strange there are to many people in Latin American towns when the church are against contraceptives and abortions.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2009 at 19:10

We have space here. We don't have the problems of overpopulation Europe has. Our countries usually have large cities, while the countryside is relatively empty.

With respect to your concern about population growth, you better worry about the extinction of native scandinavians, that reproduce less than necesary to survive a couple of generations more.

"He who attempts to count the stars, not even knowing how to count the knots of the 'quipus'(counting string), ought to be held in derision."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2009 at 19:15
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

We have space here. We don't have the problems of overpopulation Europe has. Our countries usually have large cities, while the countryside is relatively empty.
With respect to your concern about population growth, you better worry about the extinction of native scandinavians, that reproduce less than necesary to survive a couple of generations more.
 
In Sweden we donĀ“t reproduce to little or to much, instead we reproduce in the right number so we can support our own people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2009 at 19:44
Good for you
"He who attempts to count the stars, not even knowing how to count the knots of the 'quipus'(counting string), ought to be held in derision."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2009 at 12:20
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

 
"better" is just an abstract criteria. How you measure it?  
 
Yes sometimes one can just wonder what is better:
 
 
this?
 
 
 
or this?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2009 at 13:37

It could also be this:

 
 
"He who attempts to count the stars, not even knowing how to count the knots of the 'quipus'(counting string), ought to be held in derision."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2009 at 21:23
And also this:
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2009 at 21:59
That's better.
"He who attempts to count the stars, not even knowing how to count the knots of the 'quipus'(counting string), ought to be held in derision."

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