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Aelfgifu ![]() Tsar ![]() ![]() Joined: 25-Jun-2006 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 3391 |
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Albonoism has nothing to do with blue eyes in general, or with this study, bilal. It is an entirely different fenomenon.
Nevertheless, I do not really buy the story. It might be that the study was genuine, but the news-bringer messed it up both by trying to be comprihensible to laymen and have an attractive headline. Most science is messed up by oversimplification and popularisation before it reaches the general public.
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bilal_ali_2000 ![]() Baron ![]() Joined: 03-Jul-2007 Status: Offline Points: 407 |
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I agree that many times studies are oversimplified to be comprehensible to the public. Or many times there are far too many variables at work for a single person to take into account. If you are good at lab work that does not mean that you are also good at questioning the test subjects. Many times i have sen professionals make statements that i as a layman knew about better.
However albinoism is a phenomena which is pretty much related to this. Of course it is an abnormality and a disease however as they say "exceptions proev the rule" and the colouring of the skin is a phenomena which is pretty much related to melanin production. And when the production of melanin is stopped as in the extreme case of albinoism, it allows us to see effects of such a case.
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gcle2003 ![]() Immortal Guard ![]() ![]() Joined: 06-Dec-2004 Location: Luxembourg Status: Offline Points: 7011 |
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One of the things that worried me in the article was that it said
that seems to show a fundamental misunderstanding about chromosomes. For one thing, if the chromosome involved is not one of the X/Y pair, it could have come from either the father or the mother, so it could belong to either the paternal or maternal lineages whatever the sex of the subject. If it was a 'Y' chromosome (the subject was male) then it would have to come from the paternal lineage, but if it was an 'X' chromosome it could have come from either the mother or the father: hence if it's from a female you don't know which lineage it represents.
A different mutation would be from a separate lineage. However, the same mutation could occur in a different lineage. At best it's a matter of probability, and the odds really can't be objectively calculated.
Mutations changing eye colour may well be rarer than the example I gave of haemophilia. And as Temujin pointed out, there are different 'blues' involved, so it isn't a question of all these people having identical part-genotypes. The important thing however is that all hese calculations are probabilistic, not definitive.
Edited by gcle2003 - 02-Feb-2008 at 11:27 |
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Citizen of Ankh-Morpork
Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984. |
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SearchAndDestroy ![]() Immortal Guard ![]() ![]() Joined: 15-Aug-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2733 |
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I see, guess I have alot more studying on this subject. First I have to find the right sources to read from. Thanks for answering my questions/statements and explaining it all to me. Seems like when I'm finally getting the idea on a subject, I learn something of the total opposite! But reading what you said does make alot of sense to me.
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"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
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Tyranos ![]() Earl ![]() ![]() Joined: 01-Oct-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 246 |
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Well the light eyes are prone to more degenerative diseases though, so it doesnt seem positive at all to me. The humans developing blue eyes to attract mates, doesnt sound plausible, I mean I am sure we willed ourselves to develop wings far more than say, blond hair or eyes.
Anyway, according to the article it came from the Black Sea, yet one of the knucklehead says it came from Afghanistan, well Afghanistan isnt near the black sea, Greece is closer. People from Turkey are largely Turkified Greeks, Latin's and Gallics, and going back to 6-15,000 years, wouldve been no the doubt the Indo-European migrations. <<Blue eye colour most likely originated from the near east
area or northwest part of the Black Sea region, where the great agriculture
migration to the northern part of Europe took place in the Neolithic periods
about six10,000 years ago.
That is my best guess, he said. It could be the northern part of Afghanistan. >> That a specific single female or X Chromosome thing though is throwing me off, but it supposed to have come from the Neolithic, from the Agriculturists. My guess is it came with Y-Chromosomes I & J though. Edited by Tyranos - 03-Feb-2008 at 00:18 |
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SearchAndDestroy ![]() Immortal Guard ![]() ![]() Joined: 15-Aug-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2733 |
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"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
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Justinian ![]() Chieftain ![]() ![]() King of Númenor Joined: 11-Nov-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1405 |
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An interesting theory, being the neophyte that I am when it comes to this branch of study I'm not sure what to make of it at this time.
Now this I found most interesting (god, my vocabulary is pathetic, that seems to be the only word I can think of to use besides intriguing.
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"War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace."--Thomas Mann
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Aelfgifu ![]() Tsar ![]() ![]() Joined: 25-Jun-2006 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 3391 |
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You mean you have blue eyes, and never connected that to bright sunlight bothering you? Hm, I suppose the advantage of living in a country full of blue-eyed people is that things like that are more common knowledge. In summer, I wear mildly tinted uv-filtered sunglasses even when it is not sunny, simply because the brightness of the light will give me a headache. BTW, contact lenses make your eyes even more light-sensitive, dont know if you have those?
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Justinian ![]() Chieftain ![]() ![]() King of Númenor Joined: 11-Nov-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1405 |
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I'm a rather...whats the word...oblivious sort of individual. If bilal hadn't mentioned that I'd probably have grown old and died still having no idea.
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"War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace."--Thomas Mann
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Sparten ![]() Immortal Guard ![]() ![]() Totalitarian Iconoclast Joined: 18-Mar-2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 5009 |
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Strange my sister never seems to mention it.
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The Germans also take vacations in Paris; especially during the periods they call "blitzkrieg".
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Aelfgifu ![]() Tsar ![]() ![]() Joined: 25-Jun-2006 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 3391 |
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Not everyone is equally sensitive. My brother and sister are a lot less bothered by it. My borther tans too, which me and my sister do not. I am by all means exessively sensitive to the sun, but if Justinian fequently has headaches and sore eyes in summer, shades might well do the trick. (The headache is caused by musclecontractions from squinting, which is the bodies own way of trying to protect the eyes, not the light itself) Even if one is not bothered by the sun, wearing shades in bright sunlight is better for blue eyed people, as melanine is natures protection against uv-radiation and of course is mostly lacking in blue eyes.
Edited by Aelfgifu - 04-Feb-2008 at 11:18 |
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gcle2003 ![]() Immortal Guard ![]() ![]() Joined: 06-Dec-2004 Location: Luxembourg Status: Offline Points: 7011 |
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I'm the same as Aelfgifu though my eyes are green. However, as well as skin colour, I think defective vision (lack of focus) plays a part too. So I have prescription glasses that automatically darken in sunlight, taking care of both problems.
Before they were invented I had prescription sunglasses and prescription ordinary ones.
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Citizen of Ankh-Morpork
Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984. |
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Reginmund ![]() Arch Duke ![]() Joined: 08-May-2005 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 1941 |
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Yeesh, I've seen a few albinos in my life, Europeans and Asians, but none of them were particularly ugly beyond being far too pale.
I have blue eyes, but I tan just fine and I've never experienced the symptoms Justinian mentioned, I'm guessing those could have many other causes. Personally I developed blue eyes with the specific purpose of attracting mates, but it hasn't been working lately so I'm thinking of switching to green. Edited by Reginmund - 04-Feb-2008 at 13:36 |
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Hwæt! wē Gār-Dena in geār-dagum,
þeod-cyninga, þrym gefrunon, hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon. |
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Brainstorm ![]() Consul ![]() Joined: 21-Sep-2006 Status: Offline Points: 395 |
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Instead of Blue or Brown -Green eyes are a result of mutation. |
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bilal_ali_2000 ![]() Baron ![]() Joined: 03-Jul-2007 Status: Offline Points: 407 |
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^^^ No they are not. It all falls into the various shades which the eye can take from light cyan(not actually blue) to very dark brown.
The pictures of Albinos that which i had posted weren't clear about their eye color. These would fare better
As you can see that all of them have blue eyes while at the same time they are all Africans as you canjudge by their features.
Edited by bilal_ali_2000 - 23-Feb-2008 at 18:53 |
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bilal_ali_2000 ![]() Baron ![]() Joined: 03-Jul-2007 Status: Offline Points: 407 |
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That is because she is not an albino and actually has the ability to produce melanin when she really needs it. You may have noticed that peple with light eyes can change their eyes color one time it would be light blue and other time it would become green, as a result of various amount of melanin in their eyes at any one time. The reason is that they can produce melanin when it is really required, unlike an albino which can not prodcue melanin not matter what. An albinos skin colour cannot get dark no matter what, however the skin colour of a non albino can get dark under sunlight and he can tan because he can produce melanin as per his needs.
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seko12 ![]() Immortal Guard ![]() Joined: 23-Feb-2008 Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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bro stop turning this in to racist thing ^ . it seems your claiming that all europeans are diseased. That is obviously not true. The thing you have to understand is that humans adapt to anykinds of condition. Blue eyes might have started as a mutation thousands of years ago, however because of evolution and adaption it is not considered a mutation anymore.
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Lmprs ![]() Immortal Guard ![]() Joined: 30-Dec-2005 Status: Offline Points: 1872 |
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Umm, I don't think that's correct. I personally know many people with different kind of blue eyes. |
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bilal_ali_2000 ![]() Baron ![]() Joined: 03-Jul-2007 Status: Offline Points: 407 |
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Bro how can this be racist. In these type of topics, as in the case of most scholistic studies, where there are many new angles pondered you should not be so touchy. Europeans are not Albinos, they can tan just fine because unlike albinos they can produce mealnin.
However the abnormality of Albinoism allows us to see the extremities of a situation. The abnormality of Osteoperosis allows us to see that what happens when we have calcium defeciency and how crucial is calcium to our bones. Similarly the abnormality of Albinoism allows us to see that what happens whne we dpon't have any melanin in our eyes, hair and skin which is that our skin turns white, our hair turns blonde and our eyes turn blue.
Do you consider researchers who say that East Asians are lactose intolerant racist for saying something that the East Asians lack because of their unique circumstances just like European are said to lack melanin because of theirown unique circumstances.
So the moral of the story is that our eyes are brown because of melanin otherwise they would be blue.
And just like mealnin in the skin is dependent on the climate i.e lack of sunlight, similarly melanin in the eyes is also dependent on climate i.e lack of sunlight and therefore people in sunlight starved climates have blue eyes just as they have fairer skin and light hair because of the absence of melanin.
The number of blue eyes in a population is directly propotional to the lack of sunlight in their region, simple as that. It exist in perfect propotion all over the world. Africans almost never have blue eyes yet as they go up to north africa people very rarely can have blue eyes and in the extreme north of Africa blue eys are very common. Then in medeteranian Europe people are predominantly brown eyes yet blue eyes do regularly occur among them. In central Europe people have a much larger incidence of blue eyes and people in the extreme north of Europe have the largest number of blue eyes people in the world. You can observe the same phenomena in west asia and in the subcontinent. There almost does not occur a single region in the world where this relationship is violoated.
You certainly don't need any contrived theories explaining that how all blue eyed people are descendent of a single person.
And if push comes to shove this idea has to be said is very very racist. A blue eyed person in Pakistan by this idea has more to do with a blue eys guy in Scandanvia than he has with his fellow brown eyed Pakistanis including persons in his own family. Sparten's blue eyed sister has more relevance to a blue eyed German than she has to his brown eyed brother. Blue eyes in predominantly brown eyed populations exists as natural variation, simple. Classifying people purely on appearance is primarily a European and more specifically Germanic hang up. In my study of history i have never seen people place so much impotance in appearance as European when they had their day in the sun have. Herodotus in his work "Account of Egypt" while discussing that whether Egyptians have any relation to a particular group says that both of them have dark skin and curly hair but then goes on to say that that does not mean anything as other people other than Egyptians and that group also have those charactertisitcs and you cannot decide anything based just on appearance.
I also occasionaly run acrosswhite nationalists on the internet who have compiled up a list of people all over the world who have blue eyes and fair skin as well as brown hair such as in western Iran, in northern subcontinent and the like and they have some type of delusions of reuniting these people from all over the world under the ideal of "white bortherhood".
Well to most of the world these ideas are stupid, and Eurpeans should not impose these type of ideas like this "theory" on us. Blue eyes, white skin and blonde hair occur because of a sun deprived climate the more sun deprived the climate the lighter and more common these features will be, simple nothinhhg more nothing less. Edited by bilal_ali_2000 - 24-Feb-2008 at 10:35 |
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konstantinius ![]() General ![]() ![]() Joined: 22-Aug-2006 Status: Offline Points: 762 |
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I think Aelfigu nailed it. Mutations are selected for because they are reproductively advantageous for the species. I northern climates with little light people acquired blue eyes so they can see better? It is plausible, though the exact mechanics of how you see better in low light with blue eyes escapes me.
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