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Forum LockedAbortion a human right?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2009 at 17:05
Abortion is a sport of feminist, to display pride. Nothing else.
 
Killing and dispossing theirs babies in the garbage they show they are really women. Then addopts an African child or a pet when they grow old, so someone cares from them at the time.
 
There is not technical reason to resort to abortion these days, whatsoever, specially after the day-after pill.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote King John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2009 at 17:13
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

... 
Genetically the fetus is a human being, but then genetically a sperm or an egg is half a human being.
 
That's false. You know that.
 
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

... 
 But I can agree that the limit can be somewhat arbitrary. But a fairly undeveloped embryo are maybe not more human than a sperm is half human.
 
 
Don't speak balooney. Sperm is not more human than mucus. A human being starts at conception.
If a human being starts at conception then Carcharodon is right in saying that a sperm and an egg are half a human being (respectively).
 
Quote So, the problem really is if people (or woman in particular), have the right of getting rid of human beings if they please.
 
Why don't you guys accept something as simple as that and state in laws?
 
In Sweden, murder of human beings are allowed before 9 months of age
 
Or are you guys scared that by recognizing aborting is murder, you get the evil genious out of the bottle? Who is next? The grandmother? the idiot of the family? The Black or the Jew?
 
Please define human being, Pinguin. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote King John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2009 at 17:23
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Abortion is a sport of feminist, to display pride. Nothing else.
 
Killing and dispossing theirs babies in the garbage they show they are really women. Then addopts an African child or a pet when they grow old, so someone cares from them at the time.
 
There is not technical reason to resort to abortion these days, whatsoever, specially after the day-after pill.
A. It, the decision to get the procedure, has nothing to do with feminism.  It is also not a sport to anybody, you need to talk to somebody who had the procedure done and see what they went through.  There is nothing easy about the decision nor is there anything easy about the procedure itself.  There is also no sense of pride gained via having the procedure.  You need to stop sensationalizing what goes on with Abortion.  You also clearly don't know what you are talking about and have a skewed world view.

B. What does adoption have to do with a woman having an abortion in your post above.  You clearly don't understand the social stigma that abortion has (at least here in the US).  Most women who have them done live in shame (whether self-imposed or imposed by their social group).  Getting an abortion doesn't show that a woman "is a real woman."  Again, you are sensationalizing and talking about things about which you do not know.

C. You're ok with the morning after pill but not the abortive procedure?  What do you think the morning-after pill is?  It is essentially an abortion in a pill.  Don't be a hypocrite, Pinguin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2009 at 17:48
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

 
In Sweden, murder of human beings are allowed before 9 months of age
 
 
That´s rather simplistic anti abortion propaganda.


Edited by Carcharodon - 12-Jun-2009 at 17:50
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2009 at 18:09
**mod chip on**
Guys tempers heating up, please assume good faith. I know opinions are divided on this issue and passions heat up, but lets act as the responsible adulys here.
 
**mod chip off**
 
So lets say we ban abortion. Then what? It won't go away, it'll only become the province back street practioners, with dubious qualifications and even more doubtful hygine. What will be the result, you'll see 16 year old girls having their utreus removed due to gas gangerene (and ending her chance of having a family ever) because of one abortion  done by Dr. Dirtyneedles Cantgetjobelsewhere has gone badly wrong
The Germans also take vacations in Paris; especially during the periods they call "blitzkrieg".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2009 at 18:16
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Abortion is a sport of feminist, to display pride. Nothing else.
 
Killing and dispossing theirs babies in the garbage they show they are really women. Then addopts an African child or a pet when they grow old, so someone cares from them at the time.
 
There is not technical reason to resort to abortion these days, whatsoever, specially after the day-after pill.


LOL

If you didn't laugh you'd cry.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2009 at 18:19
Originally posted by Sparten Sparten wrote:

**mod chip on**
Guys tempers heating up, please assume good faith. I know opinions are divided on this issue and passions heat up, but lets act as the responsible adulys here.
 
**mod chip off**
 
So lets say we ban abortion. Then what? It won't go away, it'll only become the province back street practioners, with dubious qualifications and even more doubtful hygine. What will be the result, you'll see 16 year old girls having their utreus removed due to gas gangerene (and ending her chance of having a family ever) because of one abortion  done by Dr. Dirtyneedles Cantgetjobelsewhere has gone badly wrong


I agree with you there Spartan - technically speaking I am anti abortion. Principally on the grounds that its murder of the unborn in my eyes. However, before it was legal it was an utter disgrace. Women dying after sticking clothes hangers up themselves... Its something that has to be regulated and minimised as much as possible. In some ways its become something like a form of birth control, thats the real problem.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2009 at 18:28
Organised crime is of course licking its lips at the prospect of abortion being made illegal.

Edited by gcle2003 - 12-Jun-2009 at 18:29
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vorian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2009 at 18:31
pinguin you remind me of the demagogues I see in TV.

Until the baby becomes an organism capable of living outside the mother, she has every right to get rid of it, if it threatens her health/quality of life. When the baby is formed abortion is impossible anyway
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2009 at 18:34
Originally posted by Vorian Vorian wrote:

pinguin you remind me of the demagogues I see in TV.

Until the baby becomes an organism capable of living outside the mother, she has every right to get rid of it, if it threatens her health/quality of life. When the baby is formed abortion is impossible anyway


Pinguin is hardly a demagogue. I can think of far harsher descriptions Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2009 at 18:39
What did I say about avoiding personal attacks Vorian?
The Germans also take vacations in Paris; especially during the periods they call "blitzkrieg".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2009 at 19:14
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

... 
..., it´s just about calling things with their right names.
 
 
Indeed. That's why abortion should be called murder. And that is it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2009 at 19:15
Originally posted by Parnell Parnell wrote:

...
LOL

If you didn't laugh you'd cry.
 
Indeed. I remember you laugh about the Irish genocide, too. Angry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2009 at 19:18
Originally posted by Vorian Vorian wrote:

Until the baby becomes an organism capable of living outside the mother, she has every right to get rid of it, if it threatens her health/quality of life. When the baby is formed abortion is impossible anyway
 
Don't repeat here, please, the religious mantra of the abortionists... or followers of Baal if you preffer ...
 
This is an aborted baby, if you haven't seen one:
 

**Edited by Seko**

Pinguin, though the image you had provided (which has been removed) was fitting for your argument it was a CoC violation (graphic images). I hope you do understand.




Edited by Seko - 12-Jun-2009 at 19:20
"He who attempts to count the stars, not even knowing how to count the knots of the 'quipus'(counting string), ought to be held in derision."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2009 at 19:36
The traditional position in the English Common Law (also valid in the US after the revolution) was that abortion is allowed before the point at which the fetus demonstrates its life by moving around in the womb. When it 'quickens' to use the contemporary term.
 
The situation changed with statute in 1803 and there was a strengthening of the law in 1861, but it still only proscribed 'unlawful' termination of the pregnancy, leaving it open that there could be lawful termination: the case of Rex v Bourne in 1938 defined as one lawful reason concern for the life or health of the mother.
 
When the situation changed in the US I don't know, but there would necessarily be 9th Amendment issues involved. The Roman Catholic position only changed to considering life beginning at conception in 1869 (Pope Pius IX), until then life - 'ensoulment' was assumed to begin, as in England and the medieval and early modern world generally, when the fetus quickened.
 
Early Christianity, probably because of the influence of some Jewish thinkers, banned abortion, and as I udnerstand it, the Orthodox tradion kept to that, but St Augustine, St Jerome, Pope Innocent III and St Thomas accepted the Aristotelian concept of abortion being legitimate in the early stages - i.e. prior to ensoulment.
 
Majority Jewish thinking however takes the position that the fetus only becomes fully human on emergence from the womb: however, various schools interpret abortion as unacceptable, particularly after a quickening period, as being a interference with the emergence of a potential human. Abortion to save the mother is on the whole seen rather as self-defence on the part of the mother.
 
As I understand it, most Islamic schools accept that ensoulment happpens after 120 days in the womb, though not all accept that that makes abortion acceptable.
 
Most other of the world's religions, especially in the ancient world, seem to have found both abortion and infanticide acceptable.
 
As King John pointed out, advocating the morning after pill instead of abortion is sheer hypocrisy or ignorance. It is an abortifacient (when it works).
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2009 at 19:42
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Originally posted by Parnell Parnell wrote:

...
LOL

If you didn't laugh you'd cry.
Indeed. I remember you laugh about the Irish genocide, too. Angry
What he laughed at there was your pontification about something you obviously knew nothing whatsoever about.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2009 at 19:51
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

... 
..., it´s just about calling things with their right names.
 
 
Indeed. That's why abortion should be called murder. And that is it.
 
You cant murder a lump of cells, it´s like calling using a condom murder of a lot of sperms.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2009 at 20:03
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

...As King John pointed out, advocating the morning after pill instead of abortion is sheer hypocrisy or ignorance. It is an abortifacient (when it works).  
 
That's false. We had that debate here long ago, and it acts against the implant of the fertilized egg on the womb. For people that believe the egg is not really a fetus before it implants, there is no problem of concience.
 
And it works.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2009 at 20:04
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

...You cant murder a lump of cells, it´s like calling using a condom murder of a lot of sperms.
 
You, Carcharodon, are only a lump of cells. Angry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2009 at 20:10
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