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Forum Locked3800 year old Egyptian ship rebuilt and sailed

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 3800 year old Egyptian ship rebuilt and sailed
    Posted: 01-Jun-2009 at 20:11
A replica of an ancient Egyptian ship of the kind that used to sail to Punt has been tested and proven very seaworthy and capable:
 
 
3800 year old Egyptian ship rebuilt and sailed
 
 
 
 


Edited by Carcharodon - 02-Jun-2009 at 00:45
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2009 at 08:55
Originally posted by Carcharodon

A replica of an ancient Egyptian ship of the kind that used to sail to Punt has been tested and proven very seaworthy and capable:
 
  
Perhaps The Red Sea had as intensive and advanced trade and communication in the very early stages of navigation as the Meditteranean? The Red Sea and the Gulf - the narrow waters between Arabian Peninsula and Persia seem particularly fit for early navigation with lots of possible "targets", sometimes rich surroundings andnear shores everywhere.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2009 at 05:02

Curious. If they were such a good sailors why they subcontracted Phoenicians for the job?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2009 at 08:41
Originally posted by pinguin

Curious. If they were such a good sailors why they subcontracted Phoenicians for the job?

"Faraonic" Egypt, though often under foregn rulers, lasted about two and a half millenia, so they could have been the best in area for some time (the earlies?), surpassed by others later. After all the natural advantages of  the country seems to be rather fertility of the soil and the nil as natural "inner highway", not extraordinary favourable conditions for seafaring.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2009 at 08:45

In another way too Egypt is extraordinary, since it is located at the only natural landbridge (at least in recent times) between the two biggest landmasses - Euraisan and African - and between the two important waters, Meditteranean And Red Sea. In a near similar position lie the land many seems as "Holy".

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2009 at 19:46

Originally posted by pinguin

Curious. If they were such a good sailors why they subcontracted Phoenicians for the job?

 

Even if you are a splendid sailor you can always find someone who is better. And if you are smart then you take advantage of his knowledge.

 

Take Sweden as an example, ever since the viking age (and even earlier) Swedes and other nordic people had been good sailors but still Sweden in the 17th century hired dutch shipbuilders to help them build warships and other vessels.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote WolfHound85 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2009 at 04:58
Awesome article I had no idea Egypt's maritime technology was so advanced. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2009 at 20:31
If you want to read about ancient Egyptian ships and shipbuilding this book gives a good introduction:
 
Landström, Björn, 1970: Ships of the Pharaohs: 4000 Years of Egyptian Shipbuilding.

It is some years old but still very good and with splendid illustrations made by the author.

 
Picture of the Swedish edition
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2009 at 10:16
Originally posted by Carcharodon

Originally posted by pinguin

Curious. If they were such a good sailors why they subcontracted Phoenicians for the job?

 

Even if you are a splendid sailor you can always find someone who is better. And if you are smart then you take advantage of his knowledge.

 

Take Sweden as an example, ever since the viking age (and even earlier) Swedes and other nordic people had been good sailors but still Sweden in the 17th century hired dutch shipbuilders to help them build warships and other vessels.

Ability to build ships doesn't mean ability to sail them or fight them.
 
The 18th century French were better ship builders than the British.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2009 at 13:38
Originally posted by gcle2003

Ability to build ships doesn't mean ability to sail them or fight them.
 
The 18th century French were better ship builders than the British.
 
The 17th century Swedish could sail but the Dutch were better in buildning good ships, and they also taught the Swedes how to sail, manouvre and fight with the new and improved ships.
 
The old Egyptians could both build and sail ships, even if they eventually got surpassed by fenicians and greeks.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2009 at 14:17
What the Dutch were especially good at was building ships that could navigate in (relatively) shallow waters. Did that interest the Swedes?
 
And of course the Swedes had plenty of raw materials for shipbuilding at hand. A good basis for co-operation.


Edited by gcle2003 - 05-Jun-2009 at 14:18
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2009 at 15:09
Originally posted by gcle2003

What the Dutch were especially good at was building ships that could navigate in (relatively) shallow waters. Did that interest the Swedes?
 
And of course the Swedes had plenty of raw materials for shipbuilding at hand. A good basis for co-operation.
 
Sweden was very much interested in navigating shallow waters since it has many archipelagos with shallow water, especially in the Baltic Sea.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2009 at 15:46
Athens' ships, in the days of the Peleponesian War, were largely manned by "foreign mercenaries", which I presume included Greeks from non-aligned city-states. Some historians have commented on the international makeup of sailors who manned Spain's ships in the "Golden Age". Arturo Perez-Reverte, a novelist who is no mean historian when to comes to detail, portrays the crews of Mediterranian galleys as fairly international in makeup. Herman Melville, in "Moby Dick", comments on how international nature of the crews on U.S. whaling ships in the first part of the 19th Century. Apparently up until the Age of Nelson, the sailors actually manning naval ships were technically civilians. Only the ships' officers, marines, and gunners were considered military personnel.  Perhaps the early Egyptian fleets were similarly manned.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2009 at 15:53
A "Puntland" currently exists as a "state" of Somalia, and comprises the Horn of Africa. If the Egyptian "Punt" and Puntland are identical, then the ship in question sailed the Red Sea, and would not have gotten out into the "High Seas". There is no reason to suppose that it didn't at least travel down some of the East African and South Arabian coasts, unless, of course, the Egyptians could get everything they wanted in Punt. Yemen, across the entrance to the Red Sea, was also an important trading post.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2009 at 16:18
The historical sources regarding Punt in ancient time seems to bee a bit vague. Schoolars have suggested trading ports in Sudan, Eritrea, Djibouti, Yemen or Somalia.

Edited by Carcharodon - 06-Jun-2009 at 01:04
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2009 at 11:24
Originally posted by lirelou

Athens' ships, in the days of the Peleponesian War, were largely manned by "foreign mercenaries", which I presume included Greeks from non-aligned city-states. Some historians have commented on the international makeup of sailors who manned Spain's ships in the "Golden Age". Arturo Perez-Reverte, a novelist who is no mean historian when to comes to detail, portrays the crews of Mediterranian galleys as fairly international in makeup. Herman Melville, in "Moby Dick", comments on how international nature of the crews on U.S. whaling ships in the first part of the 19th Century.
The eighteenth century Royal Navy shipped a fair number of non-British crew, including black Africans: Captain Marryat, a Napoleonic veteran, has an important African character in the novel Mr Midshipman Easy, written in 1836 but set during the Napoleonic wars.
Apparently up until the Age of Nelson, the sailors actually manning naval ships were technically civilians. Only the ships' officers, marines, and gunners were considered military personnel. 
I don't know what you mean by 'military personnel'. It's certainly true that well before Nelson's time all members of the ships' crews were expected to fight, and 'gunners' were not a breed apart but had roles in sailing the ship when not in action (and most of the time of course they wren't). Even marines had roles in enforcing discipline on board, not just in fighting the enemy.
 
The major distinction until fairly late was more marked in some other navies with the distinction between those officers responsible for sailing the ship and for fighting, and those who took command for fighting only. I think though that at least the western European navies had got rid of that distinction before the 18th century: basically it's a rather medieval concept.
Perhaps the early Egyptian fleets were similarly manned.
Probably.
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